Reduced recoil 20ga BP loads

[Kent Hitnuttin]

Howdy All, Looking to shoot sxs hammered 20ga Pyrodex RS.  Do any of you pards have a good formula for a reduced recoil load, say with 3/4oz shot. Club uses knockdown targets. I'm new to the game, not a seasoned reloader, recoil sensitive due to spine and shoulder problems, and will be shooting Pyrodex in all my guns.  Original Winchester 73 .44-40, IAC model 99 20ga, and 1858 Remington copies in .44.  Thanks,  Kent

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I don't load for 20 ga. but the "principle" is that less powder gives tighter patterns.  It is more pellets on the metal that drops the knock-downs. Of course, that means more care placing the pattern.  The more common shotgun handling errors, like not keeping the butt into the shoulder and the cheek on the stock, lead to overshooting.  Focus your attention on the bottom one third of the target for ground targets.

DON'T chop barrels!  You need some choke to control pattern and barrel length to minimize overshooting.  If you want a barkeep's sawdoff, buy one! It will have some choke and a higher rib and/or bead to keep the impact lower.

[rickk]

A KICK-EEZ or LIMBSAVER recoil pad will reduce felt recoil considerably, especially if all there is there now is hard plastic.  A recoil buffer inserted into the stock (which adds weight to the gun) will reduce the felt recoil as well.

I hear what you are saying...shotguns with factory loads of just about any sort bother me as well, and I don't have any spine or shoulder problems. It's just not fun if it hurts.

Keep in mind that the wad is part of the payload, so anything that lightens up the wad WILL reduce the recoil. Once it leaves the barrel, the wad energy is a total waste. In fact, a heavier wad may encourage blown patterns as it doesn't drop out of the shot column as quickly.  

[Kent Hitnuttin]

OK, The IAC has 20" barrels already, already looking into a really good recoil pad.  I was thinking of 50grains of black with the 3/4oz #8, vegetable over powder, 1/2" felt cushion and an overshot card but I was reading the topic on the brass shells cause that is what I was planning on doing and a pard in there was talking 60grains in a 12ga so that's got me to thinking that I might be a little hot.  Don't want to loadup, shoot the load, and drop a load in the trousers, especially with them there dainty types around.  It takes to long to recoup from a hot load to do much experimenting on my own.  I haven't shouldered a scattergun in years, been shooting from the hip with single barrel  20ga, pistol grip, 18" barrel, winchester super speed game load #8.  Kent

[rickk]

Seeings as how we can't judge what your shoulder can tolerate, maybe you need to start ridiculously low and work up.

For what it's worth, I use 50 grains of 1F with 1 ounce of shot in my 12 gauges. It is a VERY light load in 12 gauge, but an enjoyable one.

Going any lower than 50 grains of 1F in a 12 gauge would probably not make much sense.

I don't shoot 20 g... can't help you there.

One of the sxs's I shoot that 50 grain load in is 80+ years old and damascus barreled. I have no urge to beat on it. It's lasted this long and I figure it should last another 180 years with care.  No matter how sloppily I mount the gun to my shoulder, it isn't going to hurt me at all.

[Kent Hitnuttin]

rikk,  I sold my highpowered rifles cause I couldn'd shoot them.  I can shoot a Marlin 336T .30-30 w/150 grain Winchester silvertips which produce about 10.5 lbs recoil.  I can't shoot it but a few times say 10 or less more comfortable with less than 5, but I can shoot my AK-47 7.62x39 all day long at about 6.8lbs of felt recoil. So I am looking for somewhere in between for the 25 or so shotgun rounds at a club shoot.   Kent

[Cookie]

I shoot a 20ga SxS w/ 30" barrel. When I shoot skeet, the standard target loads are pretty punishing. (More felt recoil than my 12ga 870.)

However, when my CAS loads have roughly the same felt recoil as my .45 Colt carbine. (ie - very light)

Here's my recipe -

20ga Magtech brass shell
Remington LP Primer
3.7cc (45.6 gr) Pyrodex RS
1 Nitro Wad
Compress about 1/8 in.
2 Fiber Wads (1 inch total)
4.0cc (about 7/8 oz) #8 Lead Shot
1 Over Shot Card, glued in place.

The overshot card ends up just below the rim of the shell. Obviously this load requires you to use a brass shell because you can't use any sort of crimp.

However, I highly recommend it. The full inch of fiber wads acts as an incredible shock absorber, and as I said before, the felt recoil is minimal. Plus, I've never been accused of using light loads and I've never failed to knock down a target. In fact, I often get comments about my boom stick.

[rickk]

Kent, if they are like the ones that I have, neither your 336 or your AK have rubber recoil pads on them? A rubber pad makes a world of difference. A rubber pad on the 336 will make your 336 feel less painful the AK is now.  Even a hard rubber pad is worlds better than a plastic or metal plate. The hi tech KICK-EEZ and LIMBSAVER are even better than hard rubber.

If you want easy installation, there is a KICK-EEZ slip on pad. It allows you to add additional recoil absorbing inserts if you wish. It will make the gun a bit longer though. I don't know if that is good or bad in your case.

http://www.kickeezproducts.com/slip-over-recoil-system.php

Rick

[Kent Hitnuttin]

Cookie,  Thanks, that's just what I was lookin fer and your recipe is right in line with my thinkin. Rikk, I'll look into it fer the scattergun, am gonna put something on it. Your spot on on the 336 and the AK,  the 336 is as I took it out of the box in 1976.  Thanks for all yall's help.  Kent

[Noz]

You can cut that 60 gr load in half and not lose much in the way of power.

It is not imperative that you shoot heavy loads just because you are shooting black powder. You'll blow the pattern and a lot of the powder is being ejected unburned.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I gree with NOZ;  Go low on the powder.  I'll bet you can effectively use the same volume measure of powder in the 20 ga. as in the .44WCF

[Noz]

Darn, close, Sir Charles. I fact that's close to my 12 ga load.