Got squillions of 12Ga White AA1 1/8oz plasitc wads, whats the good of them?

[fourfingersofdeath]

Th etitle pretty much says it all, I don't shotgun hunt much so I will need three lifetimes to get through these. Can I use them with BP? I usually use circle fly fibre wads and cards.

[rickk]

Maybe find someone with three lifetimes of once fired WAA hulls and see if some swapping can be arranged?

[Blackpowder Burn]

The wad is so long you won't be able to get enough BP in the shell to knock over a mouse.  The only plastic wads that work really well are the Claybuster 1138-12.  They have a real short cushion section so you can get about 65 grains of BP into the shell and make an effective load.

[Dick Dastardly]

You may be able to swap them with someone that has failed at BP shooting.  Or, swap 'em for once fired hullls.  They are just too tall to work well with black powder and there's no good way to shorten them.  When you figure out what to do with them, I have some more. . .

DD-DLoS

[Delmonico]

Hint, cut out the cushion bars between the over powder wad and the shot cup if you really want to use them.  That's the method used to make 1 oz hand-loads for a 28 gauge with nitro powders.  Just cut in half and turn 90 degrees gains less space and it used for 7/8th's oz loads for the same.  Would think one could do the same with black and a 12 gauge.

[Trap]

  Those white wads will melt over BP and make a mess in bore.

[Mako]

 Those white wads will melt over BP and make a mess in bore.

Are you sure?

Do you mean just the Winchester part number WAA12 wads (those are the specific ones he is asking about), or plastic wads in general?

I'm just asking as a concerned  fellow shooter of the fiery powder.  There have been others that have suffered from PolyethyleneEthyleneVinylacetateCpolymeDilauryl 3,3'-thiodipropionate Phobia on this forum.  There is a support group and fortunately a cure...

Regards,
Mako

[Noz]

Before you throw those wads away try reducing the powder charge by 50% from a square load and loading 1 oz of shot in an STS or AA hull.

Then ask the non-black shooters if they think you are using enough powder.   They will all say yes!

The square load blows the center out of a pattern from plastic shells in long forcing cone shotguns and throws a good portion of the unburned powder thru the hole.

I had to lighten my powder charge a bunch when I was shooting brass hulls and traditional wads to keep the pattern together.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Removing the petals gives a bit more room.

Don't hold me to this, but I've heard of using very small quantities of 3F powder?? (About half of what most folks were using with 2F.)  I believe I heard it from a guy that was loading ammo on request from some Antipodian shooters travelling to the USA for the bigger shoots.  My seniorially challenged memory seems to recollect AA white wads as well?

[Kent Shootwell]

  Those white wads will melt over BP and make a mess in bore.

I've used plastic wads in a muzzle loading 12 gauge for a very long time with no ill effects to me or the gun. The plastic does leave a film in the bore but washes right out with water. I use 80 grains of 2f a Remington wad and 1 1/4 shot for hunting. Doves get 60 grains and 1 1/8 of shot. As poor of shot that I am it takes a lot of shooting for 15 birds and now there's no limit on collared doves! Cartridge guns may act different.

[Pettifogger]

Are you sure?

Do you mean just the Winchester part number WAA12 wads (those are the specific ones he is asking about), or plastic wads in general?

I'm just asking as a concerned  fellow shooter of the fiery powder.  There have been others that have suffered from PolyethyleneEthyleneVinylacetateCpolymeDilauryl 3,3'-thiodipropionate Phobia on this forum.  There is a support group and fortunately a cure...

Regards,
Mako

Yeah, its called a couple of squirts of Windex, let it sit for a few minutes and push it out with a paper towel on the front of a 12 gauge jag.  Far faster than fooling with fiber wads while loading.

[Pettifogger]

The wad is so long you won't be able to get enough BP in the shell to knock over a mouse.  The only plastic wads that work really well are the Claybuster 1138-12. They have a real short cushion section so you can get about 65 grains of BP into the shell and make an effective load.

Really?  You'll find very few competitive shooters that use the old Winchester Red wad anymore.  Heaps of BP simply blow out the pattern.  The red wads are great for night shoots as they produce more flame.  But there are certainly a lot of effective loads that use smaller charges and different wads.  When I first started shooting CAS the prevailing "wisdom" was that if you weren't shooting 80 grains of BP you were under-gunned.  Tain't so anymore.

[Mako]

Pettifogger,
The petals are short on that wad (WAA12R or the claybuster equiv.) you can load from  24 Grams (just over 7/8 ounces) to 1 7/8 ounce loads.  They say 1 1/8, but the petals are short enough for lower.  The short center section and the short petals are why we have always used them in the past for BP.

But it's not the low shot weights that are capable with that wad that are now of interest to me for CAS loads.  You can go up in weight 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 ounces or more of shot with a lower charge of BP and get really tight patterns with recoils equivalent to standard 1 to 1 1/8 ounce loads.  You have to set your wad pressure higher to use the heavier, and you could even go to FFFg if you wanted.

No hole in the middle of the pattern,  the middle is a very shot dense cloud because the powder charge is pushing it at sub-sonic velocities.  The velocity is the key and the shot mass takes any target down.  Lots of smoke still, a big boom and a lot of shot on the steel.  BPI had some technical papers on subsonic loads, I simply applied it to BP.

Regards,
Mako

[Mako]

Yeah, its called a couple of squirts of Windex, let it sit for a few minutes and push it out with a paper towel on the front of a 12 gauge jag.  Far faster than fooling with fiber wads while loading.

Now Pettifogger, you know I was just being nice.  

I think most of us do that now, except I use moose milk instead of Windex...  

The only person who does it easier is Hellgate, he just laughs it to scorn and it falls from his tubes.  Now there's a man who has no fear of plastic.

[South Devon Cattleman]

They work great. That is all that I use for my shotgun. I believe that I use the MEC #33 powder bushing and 1 ounce of shot.  When I switched from Clays to Black Powder, I just dumped out the clays and replaced the clays with 3f Goex. I originally used 1 1/8 once of shot. I now use 1 ounce of shot. No problems either way and simple to load.

[Pettifogger]

Pettifogger,
The petals are short on that wad (WAA12R or the claybuster equiv.) you can load from  24 Grams (just over 7/8 ounces) to 1 7/8 ounce loads.  They say 1 1/8, but the petals are short enough for lower.  The short center section and the short petals are why we have always used them in the past for BP.

But it's not the low shot weights that are capable with that wad that are now of interest to me for CAS loads.  You can go up in weight 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 ounces or more of shot with a lower charge of BP and get really tight patterns with recoils equivalent to standard 1 to 1 1/8 ounce loads.  You have to set your wad pressure higher to use the heavier, and you could even go to FFFg if you wanted.

No hole in the middle of the pattern,  the middle is a very shot dense cloud because the powder charge is pushing it at sub-sonic velocities.  The velocity is the key and the shot mass takes any target down.  Lots of smoke still, a big boom and a lot of shot on the steel.  BPI had some technical papers on subsonic loads, I simply applied it to BP.

Regards,
Mako

Higher shot loads and lighter powder charges,  been then done that (do that).  However, when you go down to 7/8 the shot column is all wrong with the red wad and adding powder to make up the difference isn't a realistic solution.  The load I use most is 40 grains of BP or the equivalent volume of Pyrodex RS (hate Pyrodex, but it works good in shotguns here in a dry climate) or 777, 1 ounce of shot and the Winchester/Western orange wad.  The Remington Figure 8 also works well with the same load.  Takes down knockdowns and has enough shot for a little insurance over 7/8 loads on flyers.

[hellgate]

I use those all the time for my "gamer' loads in all the various remington compression formed hulls (STS, green, blue, black) over  55grs FFg and 3/4 oz shot. That is a 20ga equivalent load. They're fine. If you want more powder & shot, cut the "legs" out from between the cup and the OP portion and use it as a 2 piece wad. Works great there too. The barrels clean out fine with a spray bottle of windshield wiper fluid, 2 minutes soak and a half a paper towel punched through the barrel with a long wooden dowel.

[fourfingersofdeath]

Most of the guys here that seem to use plastic wads for BP shoots say that they get long strings of plastic fouling (one less than subtle type described them as looking like old frangers!) but all seem to just rinse it out with hot water at the end of the day. Suck it and see time I suppose. Thanks for the ideas.

[Springfield Slim]

Buy a spiral Tornado brush and the plastic will push right out afte a bit of a soak with warm soapy water.

[Chancy Shot]

The wads you have are junk.  Send them to me for proper disposal.   

Otherwise, use them between 47 grain of FFg and 7/8 oz of #7-1/2 shot.  It's a nice mellow load that borders on "gamer".  That is what I am using now and it knocks them down.  As for the plastic snot left in the barrel - Hot water makes it run like a moose with a cold.

Chancy