Which is the 'right' 44-40 bullet for accuracy?

[Dick Dastardly]

The designers of the family of Big Lube®LLC bullets all chose to use beveled lube channels.  Time has proven this to be a wise design feature.  Independently, and largely unknown to each other, each designed a pistol caliber cartridge bullet that carried more than five times the lube of previous designs.  They all had one common feature.  That was big lube groves with beveled sides.  As you all know, the rest is history.  Never before has there been so many trouble free black powder rounds fired.  Fouling is defeated.  Cleanup is made extremely easy.  Accuracy and function do not diminish over extend shot strings and over days of firing without need to clean the guns.  I have the "Clean Match" awards to prove it.  And, the big Six cavity molds pile up the bullets FAST.

When it comes to main match black powder Cowboy Action shooting they are the bullets others are compared to.  Cast them, load them, shoot them, enjoy them.  Cleaning is a breeze when the match is over, not between stages. . .

DD-DLoS

[Four Eyes Henry]

          AMEN   

[w44wcf]

When i look at both targets i can't wait to get my 427098 mould.

Henry, to be fair, the bullets I modified with my lathe are not quite as precise as bullets coming from a mold.
In addition, Swiss powder has given a bit better accuracy than Goex, at least in my rifle.

Jack,
Thank you for the kind words.

w44wcf  

[Henry4440]

Henry, to be fair, the bullets I modified with my lathe are not quite as precise as bullets coming from a mold.
In addition, Swiss powder has given a bit better accuracy than Goex, at least in my rifle.

Jack,
Thank you for the kind words.

w44wcf  

I will let myself be surprised.

[Springfield Slim]

Looks like the bullet mould I was thinking of having made already exits over at BRP Products, LLC  He sent me some sample bullets and i think I am going to buy a copy of this mould from him soon. Need to make sure they feed well but don't see any reason they won't.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Interesting, Slim. Here's a link with more photos and more "dope". 

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=84263

[Bryan Austin]

Interesting, Slim. Here's a link with more photos and more "dope". 

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=84263

Give'm a try with BP and let us know!

[w44wcf]

Looks like the bullet mould I was thinking of having made already exits over at BRP Products, LLC  He sent me some sample bullets and i think I am going to buy a copy of this mould from him soon. Need to make sure they feed well but don't see any reason they won't.

Slim,
Looking at the nose profile, I would think it has the makings for a good long range b.p. bullet.
How much lube does it hold?

w44wcf

[Fairshake]

That bullet drops at 225 grains and a diameter of .433 That is a little large for standard 44WCF guns. My guns both rifle and revolvers which are Uberti 73 and USFA all slug out at .427 I cast a special bullet that I had Accurate molds make that drops bullets at .430 and weigh 205 grains after being lubed and sized to .429 which is more suited to my 44-40's. Some current makers have made guns in this caliber and not remained to the true size. Marlins and Winchesters are made so that they may fire the bullets intended for the 44 spl and 44 magnums. My mold is a standard stock item now and is listed as a 210430 I think. I would have to go to the forum to verify.

[Henry4440]

Got my 427098 mould today.
Cast 200 bullets in 5 different alloys.
I will try them tomorrow at 50m-100m-150m-200m .

[w44wcf]

Henry,
Great news!  Wow! 5 different alloys.....that's a lot of testing....
Looking forward to the range report.

Last week on a day when the weather was fairly decent, I got a chance to test the 427098 (.429 diameter) in 12 bhn alloy at 200 yards using 35 grs Swiss FFG in R-P cases ignited by CCI 300 primers. SPG lube was used.

I fired 15 shots total.  The best 5 were in 2.2". 10 grouped into 5" and all 15 were in 6"   
Shooting was done from a double sandbagged rest.

w44wcf

[Fox Creek Kid]

That bullet drops at 225 grains and a diameter of .433 That is a little large for standard 44WCF guns...

Remember, in the 19th century there were no SAAMI specs. Groove diameters were all over the map. Many .44's were a nominal 0.432" such as the S&W .44 American & Russian. The .44 Henry rifles had a 0.440" groove daimeter as most of the guns had grooves 0.010" deep. 44-40's were worse, being anywhere from 0.425" and up. I have several Ubertis that slug anywhere from 0.430" to 0.432".

It's always better in this case to have a bullet that can be sized to fit all guns IMO. 

[Henry4440]

Henry,
Great news!  Wow! 5 different alloys.....that's a lot of testing....
Looking forward to the range report.

Last week on a day when the weather was fairly decent, I got a chance to test the 427098 (.429 diameter) in 12 bhn alloy at 200 yards using 35 grs Swiss FFG in R-P cases ignited by CCI 300 primers. SPG lube was used.

I fired 15 shots total.  The best 5 were in 2.2". 10 grouped into 5" and all 15 were in 6"    
Shooting was done from a double sandbagged rest.

w44wcf

w44wcf a little update from the range today.

My best result was with the 10:1 alloy.
Bullet LY427098, Winch. Primer, 36grs Swiss 3, Starline case and Lube 103.

50m


100m
The lower 9's were the first two shots.


150m


and again 100m
Fire at will


We had to cancel the 200m shooting because it begun to rain very heavy.

[Fox Creek Kid]

NICE groups, Scharfschütze!!!    Usually a cold barrel will place the first shot a little high. Usually, but not always as you have proven. 

[Montana Slim]

Would be useful to know the diameter of the black center circle for each target shot...

I've also perused this thread (rather quickly) to see if other equipment is listed, such as type of rest used, bag positioning and most important, type of sights used.

Slim

[w44wcf]

Henry,
Great shooting!   No doubt, the targets prove it....the 427098 gave better performance at 150 meters by far!  Looks like about a 10 shot 3"  group.  EXCELLENT!  




Slim,
Based on the bullet hole diameter, the entire black is about 20 CM or about 7.8" or so. Pics are about 50% reduction on a 15" screen.  Henry will let us know for sure.
That would put the 9 ring at just under 4" diameter and the 10 ring around 2" where most of the shots impacted. OUTSTANDING!  Pretty fantastic shooting at 150 meters!    

Henry has proven that The original 44-40 bullet (427098) performs very well at longer distances.....something WINCHESTER intended it to do.  

w44wcf

[w44wcf]

Here's one of the 200 yard targets using the 427098 sized .429" with SPG on board.
Bullet alloy: w.w.+2% tin  BHN: 12
REM-UMC cases were used.  All 10 shots would have hit a 6" paper plate.
Target is full size on a 15" computer screen (diagonal).



w44wcf  

[Bryan Austin]

What? You mean W44WCF actually knows what he is talking about?

I can't even see a paper plate that far out...lol  Great shooting guys!

[w44wcf]

Jack,
Well, I have had a little experience with the vintage 44 WCF aka 44-40.    

I was using a black bull for an aiming point with white paper below it where the bullets impacted.

You will be happy to know that the proposed 44-40 bullet like the 427098 with the middle lube groove removed using GOEX shoots just about as well as the 427098 / SWISS combo at 200 yards.  

Bullet alloy: w.w.+2% tin  BHN: 12  Lube: SPG



I fired 50 rounds at this range session including the 11 at this 200 yard target (shots 31-41 in the  50 shot run) and no foul out with GOEX.  

w44wcf

[w44wcf]

.....I've also perused this thread (rather quickly) to see if other equipment is listed, such as type of rest used, bag positioning and most important, type of sights used.
Slim

Slim.
Type of rest / placement I use
front - cupped sandbag on an adjustable rest  / placed under forearm just in front of the receiver  
rear - rabbit ear sandbag

Pic of my rifle was in an earlier thread.
100 yard / 300 meter sights - front - 1/16" bead,  rear - Williams Receiver sight .06 disc
200 yard - My home club has limited use of the 200 yards range from 7-9 am on Tue & Thur mornings.
The range faces east which means that the targets are not sharp distinct until after 10 o'clock so I mounted a
4X scope.

Experience has shown that the I can shoot the iron sight combo as well as the 4X at 100 yards so with well lighted targets the same would be true at longer distances.

w44wcf