Which is the 'right' 44-40 bullet for accuracy?

[Bryan Austin]

Where is this mould from? Do you have a pic of the bullet?

Here is the thread you are following, you know which casting I'm talking about. I added the words big lube not knowing it would stomp on some toes. Its pretty bad when you can't even type words on a forum without getting some .....aw never mind!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=91784

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=102929

[Bishop Creek]

Ah that I did not know! Respected!

I will refer to Dick Dasterdly's "Big Lube" as such and all others simply as big lube or large lube grooves.....if thats ok? Kind hard to call a coke a "Coke" ya know? Don't want to step on any toes around here!  Ya might want to be careful..."Dick Dastardly" might be a trade mark name....who knows!

Hi Dick. Do you remember me from the Frontier Spot where I showed you how to do the Big Lube trademark on posts like this: Big Lube™ a few years ago?

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Bishop Creek,

Yup, I remember.  That's about when I spent the money and registered the Big Lube name.  I didn't invent the bullet(s).  Mav Dutchman, PRS, Johnson/Peterson, Snakebite and other great pards did the inventing.  I simply put them under the Big Lube umbrella to keep the pretenders off.  You'd be surprised how many would be bullet casters want to claim to have "Big Lube" bullets.  Great name, ain't it?

The Mav Dutchman, invented by our own Mark VanderKarr, is the bullet being addressed here.  Ol Mav never intended this bullet for targets beyond 100 yards.  The fact that it does so quite well only attests to his good work.  The fact that it does all this with no need to clean between shot strings speaks volumes.  When the action's hot the Mav Dutchman's the one to be shooting.  All day, all weekend, probably longer and still hit what yer aiming at.

DD-DLoS

[Bryan Austin]

Howdy Bishop Creek,

Yup, I remember.  That's about when I spent the money and registered the Big Lube name.  I didn't invent the bullet(s).  Mav Dutchman, PRS, Johnson/Peterson, Snakebite and other great pards did the inventing.  I simply put them under the Big Lube umbrella to keep the pretenders off.  You'd be surprised how many would be bullet casters want to claim to have "Big Lube" bullets.  Great name, ain't it?

The Mav Dutchman, invented by our own Mark VanderKarr, is the bullet being addressed here.  Ol Mav never intended this bullet for targets beyond 100 yards.  The fact that it does so quite well only attests to his good work.  The fact that it does all this with no need to clean between shot strings speaks volumes.  When the action's hot the Mav Dutchman's the one to be shooting.  All day, all weekend, probably longer and still hit what yer aiming at.

DD-DLoS

Thanks for clearing all that up DD!  I guess its just easier to say big lube rather than larger lube groove! Funny, all this time I have been calling it the Mav Dutch Big Lube...technically it ain't? Oh you guys are killing me!

[Bishop Creek]

And I reload and shoot the Big Lube™ bullets. They are great. Love your posts too Dick.

[Bryan Austin]

Let me see if I get this straight.....

Today I decided to load up some .44 Mav-Dutchman™ Big Lube™ lead projectiles with 38gr of Goex™ FFF and Swiss™ FF black powder. I had fun shooting them in my Uberti™ Winchester™ 44WCF™ while drinking a Dr Pepper™ in my favorite blue solo™ cup. I used my CVA™ powder flask and my Lyman™ reloading tools. I keep my .44 Mav-Dutchman™ bullets in a Surcrets™ tin and my Winchester™ LWPs™ in a CCI™ percussion tin. I also keep my .44 Mav-Dutchman™ Big Lube™ Winchester™ cartridges in some Cheyenne Cart'g Boxes™. I also use Star Line™ brass as well as RP™ brass and sometimes Top Brass™. Anyhow, I had fun today chronographing my shots with the Pro Chrono™. I keep all my notes in a three ring binder made by HighMark™ as well as on my Dell™ computer which, of corse, uses Windows XP™.

What I failed to do was shoot my .44 Mav-Dutchman™ Big Lube™ filled cartridges at targets over 100 yards so I am unable to give the original poster any answers.

Maybe next time!

[Henry4440]

Thanks for your opinions, guys.
My problem with the 427666 is, that over 100m the accurracy gets worst.
Up to 100m it is quite good.

50m
( Best what i shot)





100m




Will make  some pics from the 150m range next weekend.

[Henry4440]

Here's a pic of the javelina gong at 300 meters (327 yards) shot with the 427098 and 40 grs of SWISS FFG p0owder. After getting the proper elevation the first two hits were left. I then adjusted the windage to the right and shot the center group. What fun!  The javelina target is only 9" high x 22" long.

Great shooting at 300m for a small 44-40

[Henry4440]

Here is my problem with the Lyman 427666.
Alloy 20:1, Swiss3  35grs., wad 0.070 and Lube 103.

Today at 50m, 10 shots.


at 150m, 10 shots.1 miss,1 in white, 8 black.


2nd target at 150m, 10 shots. 4 miss, 6 black.


Looks like i was shooting with a coach gun.
For the 100m shooting see my last post.

[Fox Creek Kid]

L.H., what is "Lube 103"? 

[Henry4440]

L.H., what is "Lube 103"?  

I use it mainly for my 500grs bullets in my Sharps.It's great.

[Bryan Austin]

Lonesome Henry,

Not sure if you are following this thread but your question may be answered here by w30wcf
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=91784

This thread is for a proposed group buy for a large lube grooved design of the 427098 with a few mods that should make it sweet out to some yardage.

w30wcf says he gets his best groupings with the 427098 out to 300 yards rather than with the Mav Dutchman he thinks due to the larger meplats of the Mav Dutchman. Hopefully this new design 427098 will get better groups.

[Bishop Creek]

I use it mainly for my 500grs bullets in my Sharps.It's great.

Lube 103! Where did you get it? I used to use that years ago and it was great stuff, came in a different flat type canister with a grey label at that time. I haven't been able to find it anywhere. Best stuff I ever used on cap 'n ball revolvers.

[john boy]

Lube 103! Where did you get it?

http://www.fortchambers.com/Products/Accessories/accessories.html
And while your on this website ... Shenandoah Valley Lube.  It IS the direct replacement for the patented Lehigh Valley Lube ... the best there was and is now. Muzzle loaders - Chuck Dixon and Bill Knight put me on to it.  It works as advertised!

[Bishop Creek]

http://www.fortchambers.com/Products/Accessories/accessories.html
And while your on this website ... Shenandoah Valley Lube.  It IS the direct replacement for the patented Lehigh Valley Lube ... the best there was and is now. Muzzle loaders - Chuck Dixon and Bill Knight put me on to it.  It works as advertised!

Thanks!!! I remember Lehigh Valley Lube from my flintlock days.

[Fox Creek Kid]

But Young's Country Lube 103 is a ML lube and too thin & too expensive for regular cast bullets. By the way. Young's Country 103 lube is Chap Stick. I kid you not. 

[Bishop Creek]

But Young's Country Lube 103 is a ML lube and too thin & too expensive for regular cast bullets. By the way. Young's Country 103 lube is Chap Stick. I kid you not. 

Hah!  Maybe so, but I used to use it on my cylinder pin and on the internal parts of my '58 Pietta Remington after cleaning and it works very well. By using Lube 103 on the cylinder pin and a little of it on top of each ball, I was able to fire nearly 100 rounds shooting cap 'n ball with black powder under .451 balls before the cylinder started to drag from fouling. *Disclaimer: My '58 has had an action job including lube grooves cut into the cylinder pin.

[Henry4440]

Which SPG Lube are you using.


or

But Young's Country Lube 103 is a ML lube and too thin & too expensive for regular cast bullets.

Yip it's thin, but i get fantastic results with the Sharps.
Oh btw, the Lube 103 Can is cheaper than SPG Can here in Germany.

[w44wcf]

Henry,
My experience with long range shooting with the .44-40, found that accuracy with larger meplat bullets (MAV, Lyman 429666, SAECO 200) deteriorated more rapidly at longer distances than with the 427098 which has a smaller meplat and a bit more streamlined nose.  Here is a target fired at 100 yards with the 427098 and SWISS powder. 
The first shot from a clean barrel impacted at 1 o'clock, then the other 9 grouped into a bit over 2".


When the weather gets a bit better I'll try it for group at 200 yards on paper.

The proposed bullet that Savvy Jack referenced has a profile  similar to the 427098 except the the center band has been removed for added lube capacity.  The regular 427098 runs fine for many shots with SWISS but not with Goex or Schuetzen in a 24" barrel in my experience.  The proposed bullet would work better with those two powders at longer distances.

w44wcf

[Henry4440]

Henry,
My experience with long range shooting with the .44-40, found that accuracy with larger meplat bullets (MAV, Lyman 429666, SAECO 200) deteriorated more rapidly at longer distances than with the 427098 which has a smaller meplat and a bit more streamlined nose.  Here is a target fired at 100 yards with the 427098 and SWISS powder. 
The first shot from a clean barrel impacted at 1 o'clock, then the other 9 grouped into a bit over 2".


When the weather gets a bit better I'll try it for group at 200 yards on paper.

The proposed bullet that Savvy Jack referenced has a profile  similar to the 427098 except the the center band has been removed for added lube capacity.  The regular 427098 runs fine for many shots with SWISS but not with Goex or Schuetzen in a 24" barrel in my experience.  The proposed bullet would work better with those two powders at longer distances.

w44wcf

That is the group i was looking for. What bullet alloy did you use?
With smokeless i have no problem at 100 and 150m.