Which is the 'right' 44-40 bullet for accuracy?

[Henry4440]

Is it right that a bullet with larger meplats will produce larger groups than those with smaller meplats?
I'm using the Lyman 427666.
Is the Lyman 427098(Old standard 44-40 rifle bullet) better for ranges between 150 - 300 yards?

What is with the Mav Dutchman 44-40 bullet with its larger meplat? I read it is an excellent bullet for CAS!

Is there any empirical values with different bullets at ranges from 150-300 yards?

[Noz]

Can't tell you the accuracy of either bullet.
I shoot the MAV Dutchman at SASS ranges. It's strong point is that it carries 3 grs of lube and allows a 44/40 with black powder to run 10-12 stages (100-120 rounds) with out cleaning.

[Bryan Austin]

I'd answer but I am not qualified! 

[Fox Creek Kid]

The MAV will shoot OK to 100 yds. then "dies" IMO. The Lyman 427098, which is basically a copy of the original Win. bullet, will shoot far better at long range. However, the trade off is that the Lyman has two tiny lube grooves that don't hold up to sustained CAS shooting.

Bullets with large meplats are not aerodynamic as such and are not best suited for long range.

[Bryan Austin]

Is it right that a bullet with larger meplats will produce larger groups than those with smaller meplats?

Yes, pending yardage and loading recipe.

Is the Lyman 427098(Old standard 44-40 rifle bullet) better for ranges between 150 - 300 yards?

yes, more aerodynamic right?

What is with the Mav Dutchman 44-40 bullet with its larger meplat?

I don't know, guess the designer needs to answer that one....but it makes one hellofa self defense projectile.

I read it is an excellent bullet for CAS!

Yes, because of lots of lube the barrel stays clean for the day and it only travels less than 10 yards in CAS. Flat points also act similar to hollow points when it finds it's target. 45 Colt flat nose will knock the daylights out of ya if ya get hit with one!

Is there any empirical values with different bullets at ranges from 150-300 yards?

Sometimes it makes me wonder why big game projectiles are small and pointed...but then again, there is BPCR with round noses!

Hunting: Aerodynamics for distance, penetration then expansion.
SD: Penetration/expansion
CAS: to be able to shoot 100 rounds of ammo without having to swab the barrel....and hit a 24x24 target

[Dick Dastardly]

The proven success of the black powder Mav Dutchman bullet stands it well in the accuracy department.  I recall winning the running buffalo 100 yard contest at Mississippi Fandango with my Browning 92 44ELR after lots of shooting without cleaning.  I've won other long range contests with this rig as well and have the wood and paper to prove it.  All these were shot with a "dirty" barrel.

During the heat of battle there's no time to poke patches down the bore.  When there's business to do, the Mav Dutchman gets it done.

Since the Mav Dutchman is a true Big Lube®LLC design the second shot and the last shot each encounter the same amount of fouling.  That's because the fouling remains soft and blows out with the succeeding shot.  This is one bullet that can shoot accurately and well without need to clean during the match.  My last two annual matches last season were shot CLEAN with Mav Dutchman bullets in my rifle.

How's that for accuracy?

DD-DLoS

[Bryan Austin]

The proven success of the black powder Mav Dutchman bullet stands it well in the accuracy department.  I recall winning the running buffalo 100 yard contest at Mississippi Fandango with my Browning 92 44ELR after lots of shooting without cleaning.  I've won other long range contests with this rig as well and have the wood and paper to prove it.  All these were shot with a "dirty" barrel.

During the heat of battle there's no time to poke patches down the bore.  When there's business to do, the Mav Dutchman gets it done.

Since the Mav Dutchman is a true Big Lube®LLC design the second shot and the last shot each encounter the same amount of fouling.  That's because the fouling remains soft and blows out with the succeeding shot.  This is one bullet that can shoot accurately and well without need to clean during the match.  My last two annual matches last season were shot CLEAN with Mav Dutchman bullets in my rifle.

How's that for accuracy?

DD-DLoS

That is great! Any chance you have been able to test/check longer distances? 100 yards for me is good enough for what I do around here.

[Dick Dastardly]

When I go over 150 yards I use my 38-55.  After 500 yards I use my 45-70.  I tend to use the caliber appropriate to the distance.  Yes, the Mav Dutchman shot out of my Browning 44ELR will reach further, but it was never intended for long distance shooting.  That lil 92 is pretty light.  I've shot it out to 300 yards and it takes a while to get there.  Kind of like Boom. . . . wait . . . . clang, or not.

The running buffalo was real fun tho.  It was mounted on tracks and went out and back from behind a berm.  You got Five shots and could shoot them coming or going.  Then, they counted bullet holes and scored.  I guess I had my lead right. . .

DD-DLoS

[August]

Kinda makes all those decades of target shooters using full wadcutter ammo look pretty foolish if it's true.

[Springfield Slim]

My Henry can shoot an 18" steel plate at 100 yards with no problem. My '66 short rifle cannot. The bullet isn't the only deciding factor. Every time this comes up I have to wonder what in the world you are shooting at 300 yards that you can only use a 44-40. And as for the big meplat on the MAV, it was how the bullet ended up after figuring all the ofther design parameters. Toggle action rifles commonly used in cas type shooting do have an overall length minimum and maximum for proper feeding. Get on Mountain Molds, use their bullet design software, type in some ideas you have and you would be surprised what does and doesn't work. Plus very small meplats like on some of the older BP designs from the 1800's are considered too small to use in a lever gun due to the problem of setting off the primers in the magazine. The bullet is good for what it was designed for, no bullet is perfect at all things. Personally, if I was needing to shoot long range with my 44-40 I would use a heavier bullet than all those previously mentioned. 

[w44wcf]

Is it right that a bullet with larger meplats will produce larger groups than those with smaller meplats?
I'm using the Lyman 427666.
Is the Lyman 427098(Old standard 44-40 rifle bullet) better for ranges between 150 - 300 yards?

What is with the Mav Dutchman 44-40 bullet with its larger meplat? I read it is an excellent bullet for CAS!

Is there any empirical values with different bullets at ranges from 150-300 yards?

Henry,
In my experience, the 427098 has proven to be the most accurate bullet in the 44-40 over long distances between 100 to 550 yards and I have tried others including the MAV.  Due to the smaller lube capacity, SWISS b.p. is the only powder that will shoot it well over many rounds without fouling out.

On the other hand, the MAV will shoot trouble free with any of the b.p's due to its larger lube capacity.

Here's a pic of the javelina gong at 300 meters (327 yards) shot with the 427098 and 40 grs of SWISS FFG p0owder. After getting the proper elevation the first two hits were left. I then adjusted the windage to the right and shot the center group. What fun!  The javelina target is only 9" high x 22" long.


By comparison, other bullet designs shot groups several times larger........

w44wcf

[Trailrider]

There are a LOT of factors affecting bullet accuracy, not just the diameter of the meplat.  Of course, the shape of the bullet determines the velocity downrange as a flatpoint bullet has a much poorer ballistic coefficient than, say a pointed one. But you don't want to use a spitzer point bullet in a tubular magazine rifle!

But the amount of lube the bullet carries, the bullet/groove diameter relationship, and the hardness of the bullet will all affect the exterior ballistics. You just need to experiment and see what works in your guns. This ain't so much of a science as an art.

[Montana Slim]

A few years ago, I shot my 1866 Rifle (44-40) from X-sticks at a target printed on 8 1/2 x 11 paper. Fired a box (50) rds of BP cartridges loaded with Mav-D's & 33 grains of Schuetzen FF. No cleaning or cooling. All 50 shots were on the paper. Group center was 2" left & low of target center. ES was around 6"....Given the rudimentry sights, I thought this was decent performance.

Slim

Edit to add, distance was 110 yds.

[Dick Dastardly]

The proven Mav Dutchman keeps on doing it.  After others have folded their low lube tent and their shooters have gone to the cleaning rod poke, the Mav Dutchman keeps on running like a pink bunny.

I'm thinkn' that if on General Custer had had Big Lube®LLC boolits, he might have won. . . .  Same goes for those poor Brits that were put upon by the savages with the ling knives.  Their Martini Henry's might just have run long enough for that thin line to hold.

So many centuries, so little time. . . Where have you been Big Lube?

Brilliance is ours to behold.

DD-DLoS

[Bryan Austin]

I can only buy one mold at a time.

I have:
Lyman 454190 2 cav
Lee Mav Dutch 44

on order
.432 200gr 2 cav (large lube groove)  EDITED 

[Springfield Slim]

The MAV is the 200 grain Big Lube bullet, unless you are calling something else a Big Lube.

[Bryan Austin]

The MAV is the 200 grain Big Lube bullet, unless you are calling something else a Big Lube.

Yeah, the Mav DUtch is the "Big Lube" but the .432 200gr (maybe 210gr) will have a large lube too.  (EDITED)

[Springfield Slim]

Where is this mould from? Do you have a pic of the bullet?

[Dick Dastardly]

Big Lube™ is a trade mark.  I registered this trade mark when I started my on line business selling bullet molds and black powder supplies.  Please respect this lawful use.

Thanks,

DD-DLoS

[Bryan Austin]

Big Lube™ is a trade mark.  I registered this trade mark when I started my on line business selling bullet molds and black powder supplies.  Please respect this lawful use.

Thanks,

DD-DLoS

Ah that I did not know! Respected!

I will refer to Dick Dasterdly's "Big Lube" as such and all others simply as big lube or large lube grooves.....if thats ok? Kind hard to call a coke a "Coke" ya know? Don't want to step on any toes around here!  Ya might want to be careful..."Dick Dastardly" might be a trade mark name....who knows!