The Charlie Meeks Flobert (Picture 12637)

[Delmonico]

We kicked Charlie Meeks little gun around a bit (picture 12637) a bit already, but for a bit more based on my research.  If one looks at the end of the barrel it looks to be a 9mm.

Here is a bit of information on the history of the Flobert's:

http://7kilometr.com/eng/article/show/-584

A clean-up of the trigger-guard:



A couple of better pictures I got off auction sites:






Most were smooth-bore and shot either a round ball round:





Or shot rounds, (beside 22 rounds with round ball 9mm.)



Fiocchi still makes at least the shot rounds:



These were often called Garden Guns and would be useful for keeping pests out of a garden. 

Some were listed in the 1895 Wards Catalog:


http://books.google.com/books?id=zWel51IwQ2AC&pg=PA461&lpg=PA461&dq=flobert+rifles+1895+wards+catalog&source=bl&ots=LQZNw_CLog&sig=sIqv-s8U5X5gWyZeUKIU870CJ5U&hl=en&ei=5As_TaK6CI-WsgPNw-zhBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[JimBob]

LOL Dang you're good at cleaning those pictures up.

I've looked through my reference material on these and found them listed in various old catalogs etc. at different dates in calibers .22RF,.25RF,.32RF,and 9mm Shotshell.The only ones I have personally seen were .22RF rifled and 9mm smooth bored.In that period of time the .32RF was offered as a shot cartridge as I've seen some Remington No.4 rifles smooth bore for .32 shot cartridges.

[JimBob]

I just got curious about the 9mm and Flobert rifles and at what date they started showing up in old catalogs given the date of the picture,1886.These are just my thoughts,not trying to start an arguement.

In checking a Hartley and Graham catalog,no date,but they list the M1876 Winchester but not the M1886 so it's somewhere in that range.The Colt Model 1877 is listed,narrows it a little more.They list the Chamberlin Patented Shotshell Loading Machine which was patented in 1884,narrows a little more.No M1888 Marlins listed,pretty much gets us down to between 1884-1888.

Now to the Flobert rifle listings:

No.347 Warnant System,.22 calibre,Rifled,Varnished stock .....................................................$5.34

No.348P    "         "              "      Heavy barrel,oiled stock,Pistol grip.......................................$7.34
.....
No.351P    "        "               "              "               "           "        ,Silver bands on breech.......$8.00   

No.395P Warnant System,New Style,.32 calibre,rifled,heavy barrel,rifle butt,pistolgrip................ $9.34

Now to the ammo:

They list .32 short,.32 long,.32 extra long and .32 shot cartridges.No 9mm Shotshells.

I would hazard a guess it's a .32RF instead of a 9mm Shotshell given the date of the picture and catalog offerings.Hartley and Graham and Schyler,Hartley and Grahman was one of the biggest retail/wholesale houses in the country in that period with ties to many manufacturers here and overseas.

[Delmonico]

Could be, the hole is bigger though than 22.  Would surprise the kid I bet that we were making so much fuss over his Flobert in the picture, bet he's rather of had a real shotgun or rifle.

[JimBob]

LOL I thought the saddle blanket was interesting.Ma probably wondered where the front door rug went to.

[Delmonico]

There is a picture of a famous cowboy/outlaw armed with a Flobert pistol:

Ned Huddleson aka Isam Dart:



http://www.vincelewis.net/blackcowboys.html

A couple pictures of Flobert Salon Pistols:





And the best I could do with the picture which is a print and not a negative, and the first is the largest I can get it:



The picture is in The Denver Public Library collection.

My guess just a photographers prop, I doubt he really carried one as a back-up. 

[JimBob]

Are you having trouble with this forum?Slow,locking up,timing out.

[Delmonico]

Are you having trouble with this forum?Slow,locking up,timing out.

Nope.

[Delmonico]

OK, it did do a double tap, but I deleted the extra one.

[JimBob]

OK, it did do a double tap, but I deleted the extra one.

That wasn't why I asked.Last few days this site has been as I mentioned.May need to delete the cookies and browsing history shut down and restart.

[Delmonico]

That wasn't why I asked.Last few days this site has been as I mentioned.May need to delete the cookies and browsing history shut down and restart.

Try it, but we've had some slows here recently from time to time.  The boss has been working on it.

[JimBob]

LOL I wish you'd never posted that picture Delmonico.I got curious about when U.S. manufacturers first started making 9mm shotshells.I'm trying to find books I ain't had call to look at in months or years.

By 1902 Marcellus Hartley was operating alone.The 1902 catalog still has Flobert rifles but no 9mm ones nor is there a 9mm shotshell on the UMC ammunition list.What is interesting is that the price of the .32 caliber rifle had dropped to $3.25 from $9.34 circa 1885.

Now if I can find my 1912 Alpha catalog,1901 Sears,1895 Monkey Wards,and that Catalog of Old Ammunition Catalogs.