The muzzle-loading shotguns of the Butcher Collection:

[Delmonico]

A few muzzle-loading shotguns also show up in the Butcher Collection.  They were cheap game getters.

10929:



10634:



11059, going to call it based on the powder horn:



13554:



16267, not sure, but it looks like there are nipples on it:



12937, OK, the fun one, single-shot muzzle-loader, lots of oddities and interesting information in the picture, beyond just the gun.  Be careful of what you are seeing, all is not as it looks at first glance.  (We've kicked this one around before, so if you know, don't tell.)

[JimBob]

#16267 Look a litte closer it's a breechloader.You can see the top lever.

[Delmonico]

#16267 Look a litte closer it's a breechloader.You can see the top lever.

You may be right, I'll play with it some more when I get home, might be able to pull just the lever out.

[Hangtown Frye]

I think I'd call #12937 a rifle, based on the rear sight that appears to be visible above and slightly behind the wedge position.  And it may be a double, since the sling could be hiding a second hammer spur from view as well.  Based on the shape of the fore-stock, I would suspect that it may in fact a double, but whether it's a double rifle, a combination gun or a sighted smoothbore is hard to tell from our vantage point.  That it has a sling suggests both that it's a rifle of some sort, and of European origin.

Cheers!

Gordon

[Delmonico]

We're pretty sure it's a single barrel, the visible trigger is pretty far back in the trigger guard.  Fron Europe, we're pretty sure of, most likely Belgium.

[JimBob]

European guns often had sling mountings on them.Ball and Shot guns will often have sights on them even though smooth bored.A fellow collecter had several that did including a 4 bore.I think the having sights determined the Ball and Shot naming of them.

[Stu Kettle]

The suspense is killing me Del, nobody has mentioned the "left-handed" lock...

[Delmonico]

The suspense is killing me Del, nobody has mentioned the "left-handed" lock...

Yeah I know, we need to teach them to look more closely.

[Hangtown Frye]

The suspense is killing me Del, nobody has mentioned the "left-handed" lock...

One of the reasons for my thinking it may be a double.  Left handed locks, especially on European-built firearms, are pretty rare on single-barrel guns.  If it IS a sinister single-barrel, then it's a rare bird indeed.  That or it's a reversed negative.

Cheers!

Gordon

[Delmonico]

One of the reasons for my thinking it may be a double.  Left handed locks, especially on European-built firearms, are pretty rare on single-barrel guns.  If it IS a sinister single-barrel, then it's a rare bird indeed.  That or it's a reversed negative.

Cheers!

Gordon

If the negative is reversed then the guy has a ladies shirt on.

We kicked this one around several years ago, I think it was Chuck Burrows came up with the answer, it is a left-handed single barrel.  Some of the companies in Belgium made them up and sold them at a discount to use up left handed locks.  Single-barrel muzzle-loaders still sold fairly well, doubles didn't any more.

[Delmonico]

I'd say this is a single barrel percussion muzzleloading shotgun, you can see the barrel tennon and ramrod pipes. - based on the style of the hammer and guard I'd say probably of Belgian make. While possibly a rifle the round barrel, lack of rear sight (what sort of looks like a rear sight is part of the sling IMO), oversized trigger guard, and other points ID'd on the photo suggest shotgun not rifle.
While left handed firearms were not overly common neither were they unknown (after all double barrels used left handed locks) -  Inexpensive muzzleloading shotguns were still being built at this time in pretty good quantity since they were cheap to build and thus sell.........

I found it.

[JimBob]

I found it.

Does anyone have any sources on left handed guns like this.Old catalogs or something like that.Left handed guns were built all along even flintguns and wheellocks.Could be he had this built in a shop somewhere.What I thought was a sight does appear to be part of the sling as Nolan Sackett states, but the shape of the wood in the fore arm sure looks like that on a double despite the non-appearance of a trigger in the trigger guard.Even if that is a single as much of the trigger guard is showing you should be able to see a trigger.I'd estimate half or better of the guard is showing.Food for thought.

LOL I really wasn't paying attention to the gun so much as the guys surroundings.Jeez,no table,doing his food prep sitting on the floor using a chair for a table.What appears to be a bed right next to him.How big was the shack he's living in,6x8?

Edit:I dug out a reprint of Hartley&Graham catalog circa 1880.At that time a cheap single barrel shotgun could be had for $2.47.A cheap double barrel by comparison was $8.33.Over five dollars.Given the wage rates of the era,a significant amount,a weeks wages maybe or more.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

I just figured it was a reversed image

[Hangtown Frye]

Interesting stuff!  Good deductions by all.

Cheers!

Gordon

[Delmonico]

Off the topic of shotguns, but the pork of the time was also much fatter than our modern pork as this close-up of his ham shows:



There is something else in this picture that will change what most of us know or think we know about the era, look for it.  Caught me off guard when I first saw it and had to go off on a search, yep, I was wrong, what I saw was period correct.

[JimBob]

Guess they didn't need the lard or that's fresh killed pork.Hogs were a lot fatter back then.I always thought the pork from hogs that were fed some feed but were allowed to roam the woods foraging for mast tasted better than the stuff now from confinement operations.Still got Grandads scalding kettle.

[Delmonico]

Guess they didn't need the lard or that's fresh killed pork.Hogs were a lot fatter back then.I always thought the pork from hogs that were fed some feed but were allowed to roam the woods foraging for mast tasted better than the stuff now from confinement operations.Still got Grandads scalding kettle.

I've got one also that was grandpa's, plus his skinning knife.