Rifles of the Butcher Collection

[Delmonico]

A friend identified the pistol as a Forehand & Waddsworth, don't matter, it won't fire, it's missing the hammer.

A freind had a 000 gauge brass Winchester shotshell. 

[JimBob]

Very rare,a true hammerless pistol.

Biggest WRA I've got is an 8 guage 3 1/2 inch. Always wanted an 8 guage gun.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Other than the octogon barrel, that long gun looks awful shotgun like. Stock kinda reminds me of the 93-97 Win. stock

[Silver Creek Slim]

Thanks Jimbob, I haven't really worked to identify some of the odd ones, haven't had time yet and thought I'd throw it out to everyone here.  BTW the date on 13309 is 1903 so it should be the Remington. 

Wish I could zoom in more. It looks similar to my No. 4 Remington.

Slim

[Silver Creek Slim]

You sure those aren't cigars in his belt. 

Slim

[Stu Kettle]

Wish I could zoom in more. It looks similar to my No. 4 Remington.

I can zoom in more, but can't make it clearer.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Looks like a roller to me.

Slim

[Stu Kettle]

me too

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

You sure those aren't cigars in his belt. 

Slim

LOL Slim, I was thinking the same thing, they appear to be rounded at both ends, and a little long.

[JimBob]

LOL See Delmonico,I ain't the only agitator.   It do look like a No.4 instead of a No.6,if only someone well versed in the more arcane and black arts of the Shaman Computer would clean it up. (hint hint)  

[JimBob]

LOL Slim, I was thinking the same thing, they appear to be rounded at both ends, and a little long.

Kinda hard to light,they burn hot and the smoke off them smells awfull.After smoking a few you get kinda weak kneed standing up and your shoulder hurts something awfull.

[Delmonico]

LOL See Delmonico,I ain't the only agitator.  It do look like a No.4 instead of a No.6,if only someone well versed in the more arcane and black arts of Wizard Computer would clean it up. (hint hint) 

We're to the limit of the scan, we would need a rescan of the negative at higher res.  Those scans date to the middle 1990's and was the best they could do.  I bet my one at home could do better now.  I need to make a list of ones I would like to see higher, wonder what it would take, I bet John has one in his office now that would do better.  I need to do some checking, might have to see if he wants to do a lunch sometime. 

Besides that, Slim is the geek here, I learned part of what I know from him, if he can't make it better I sure can't. 

[Silver Creek Slim]

11184, does this one look like it has a longer barrel that the common 26 inch for a rifle?

It's longer than 26". My Uberti Win 73 has a 24" barrel with a forend stock and cap of 10". The forend stock and cap are longer than 10" on the pictured rifle. Therefore, I'd say the barrel is close to 30".

Slim

[Delmonico]

It's longer than 26". My Uberti Win 73 has a 24" barrel with a forend stock and cap of 10". The forend stock and cap are longer than 10" on the pictured rifle. Therefore, I'd say the barrel is close to 30".

Slim

Thats kind of what I though, hadn't had time to compare them with a picture of a 24" barreled one.  Wonder how many of them long barreled ones were made?

[JimBob]

Thats kind of what I though, hadn't had time to compare them with a picture of a 24" barreled one.  Wonder how many of them long barreled ones were made?

The data on numbers and lengths is available as the M1873 records are virtually complete,Cody museum has them.I may have it somewhere.Barrels could be special ordered in 2 inch increments from 14 to 36 inches.

[Delmonico]

The data on numbers and lengths is available as the M1873 records are virtually complete,Cody museum has them.I may have it somewhere.Barrels could be special ordered in 2 inch increments from 14 to 36 inches.

I've seen it somewhere, maybe in Wilson's book.

[Wild Billy Potts]

#10893 appears to be an M1842 Springfield. Would have served sufficiently as a handy cost effective shotgun.

[JimBob]

#10893 appears to be an M1842 Springfield. Would have served sufficiently as a handy cost effective shotgun.

Sure could have been.Schuyler,Hartley,and Graham had shipped over 5000 of them to western retailers by 1886 and they were still being sold by places like Sears and Wards at the turn of the century.A cheap all purpose ball and shot gun.

[Dead I]

Considering the long barreled Allen trapdoor...each regiment was issued one trapdoor affixed with a 20 gauge barrel to use to forrage for game to supplement issue chow.  Many were 1866 guns and some were 73's.  They are rare today.  I have seen two.  They looked just like the trapdoor in the photo. 

[JimBob]

Considering the long barreled Allen trapdoor...each regiment was issued one trapdoor affixed with a 20 gauge barrel to use to forrage for game to supplement issue chow.  Many were 1866 guns and some were 73's.  They are rare today.  I have seen two.  They looked just like the trapdoor in the photo. 

Prior to the issue of the M1881 Trapdoor Shotgun,Springfield Armory purchased commercially available shotguns for issue.There are sales records extant in the Parker Bros. ledgers.There is no record of any being made or converted by SA prior to the Model 1881.Some parts used on the M1881 SG were from earlier models,particularly the barrels made from .58 cal. percussion musket barrels and stocks  from the 61 and or 63 muskets with the ramrod hole filled plus some other salvaged parts.The receivers of SA manufactured originals will not have the ejector stud or hole for same in them.That is one way to spot the fakes and Bannerman type guns.It is a widely faked gun as only a little over 1300 were produced between 1880-1885.The overall length was 45 1/4 inches.