Rifles of the Butcher Collection

[Delmonico]

In this thread I will show the results of my search through the Butcher collection and show the rifles I found in it.  Like the pistol thread I'll just show the cleaned up crops unless I think the full picture needs shown.  The numbers will make it easy to look them up if you want.

11188, looks like a Allin conversion with the stock cut down:



10989:



13262, nice heavy barreled Ballard and a fairly hefty caliber from the looks of the rounds in the belt:



10893, looks to be a rifled musket, perhaps a Springfield:



13113, cute boys rifle:



10140:




13309 another boys rifle:



13264:



12674:



11071:



11184, does this one look like it has a longer barrel that the common 26 inch for a rifle?



10754, nice plains type rifle:

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Looks like a few 73's and/or 76's, maybe a couple '95's. One of those single shots kinda reminds me of a Roller......Buck

[JimBob]

Those are some great pictures.Thanks for posting.

Some thoughts on the rifles:

#11188 With that long barrel and beveled lockplate a Model 1866 Springfield .50-70.

#10989 Winchester M1886,a big boomer.I have one in .45-90 made in 1891.

#13262 A Ballard for sure.The cleaning rod beneath barrel marks it as a "Pacific Model",the only one that had a cleaning rod mounted on the barrel like a muzzle loader.It did come in some big calibers like the .40-90 and .45-100.

#13113 This is an interesting one.A Hopkins&Allen Merwin&Hulbert Pantent Junior.No mistaking that trigger guard and action.A rather hard to find "boys rifle" today.Specimens in exc. to mint can bring over $500.

#13309 A liitle hard to tell.Looks like either a Remington No.6 Rolling Block or a Stevens Little Scout.The date of the picture could tell.The Little Scout didn't enter the Steven's line until 1911.

That's sure one fine looking plains rifle in the last picture.The Winchesters are easy to identify in pictures,there are so many.The others less so.Not often do you see a picture of the Ballard especially with the owner wearing a cartridge belt where you van see those big cartridges.

[JimBob]

Those are some great pictures.Thanks for posting.

Some thoughts on the rifles:

#11188 With that long barrel and beveled lockplate a Model 1866 Springfield .50-70.

#10989 Winchester M1886,a big boomer.I have one in .45-90 made in 1891.

#13262 A Ballard for sure.The cleaning rod beneath barrel marks it as a "Pacific Model",the only one that had a cleaning rod mounted on the barrel like a muzzle loader.It did come in some big calibers like the .40-90 and .45-100.

#13113 This is an interesting one.A Hopkins&Allen Merwin&Hulbert Patent Junior.No mistaking that trigger guard and action.A rather hard to find "boys rifle" today.Specimens in exc. to mint can bring over $500.

#13309 A liitle hard to tell.Looks like either a Remington No.6 Rolling Block or a Stevens Little Scout.The date of the picture could tell.The Little Scout didn't enter the Steven's line until 1911.

That's sure one fine looking plains rifle in the last picture.The Winchesters are easy to identify in pictures,there are so many.The others less so.Not often do you see a picture of the Ballard especially with the owner wearing a cartridge belt where you can see those big cartridges.


It's 2 above zero here in East Central Illinois at 1PM.Don't think we'll make it to the forecasred high of 11.Brrrrrrr!

LOL Looks like I hit the wrong button again.Old dog trying to learn new tricks.

[Delmonico]

Thanks Jimbob, I haven't really worked to identify some of the odd ones, haven't had time yet and thought I'd throw it out to everyone here.  BTW the date on 13309 is 1903 so it should be the Remington. 

[JimBob]

Thanks Jimbob, I haven't really worked to identify some of the odd ones, haven't had time yet and thought I'd throw it out to everyone here.  BTW the date on 13309 is 1903 so it should be the Remington. 

LOL Too cold to do much but read and research today.Do you have a date for 13262?The Pacific was first offered in 1876 till 1891.Another variant I overlooked with the ramrod like that is the No.5 1/2 Montana Rifle.Made Circa 1882-1884.It was offered in the .45 Sharps 2 7/8 only.That sure looks like what those cartridges are in his belt.

[Delmonico]

LOL Too cold to do much but read and research today.Do you have a date for 13262?The Pacific was first offered in 1876 till 1891.Another variant I overlooked with the ramrod like that is the No.5 1/2 Montana Rifle.Made Circa 1882-1884.It was offered in the .45 Sharps 2 7/8 only.That sure looks like what those cartridges are in his belt.

Date is 1891 or 92.

To find the picture if you want go to:

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award98/nbhihtml/pshome.html

Type the # into the search to bring up the picture and info.  Be careful, the collection can be addicting on cold nasty days.

[JimBob]

Date is 1891 or 92.

To find the picture if you want go to:

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award98/nbhihtml/pshome.html

Type the # into the search to bring up the picture and info.  Be careful, the collection can be addicting on cold nasty days.

I have been studying that picture,the one with the cartridge belt appears to be holding a rifle with the butt on the ground.You can barely make out the end of the forearm with a nose cap similiar to some Sharps and Remington Rolling Blocks.Pretty murky and hard to tell.

[Delmonico]

I have been studying that picture,the one with the cartridge belt appears to be holding a rifle with the butt on the ground.You can barely make out the end of the forearm with a nose cap similiar to some Sharps and Remington Rolling Blocks.Pretty murky and hard to tell.

Trouble maker.   That spot is not good on the negative and I never noticed it, guess I just glanced and thought it was a spoke on the wheel.  Spent more time looking in the wagon.





Looks to be another Ballard to me, is that what you think?

I told you, the collection can be addicting.  Wish there was more where we had the negative to work with.  Of course there is the Brady Collection, it's on American Memory also, btw it's had the funding to be rescanned at ever higher res.  Even on a good computer and a good connection that one gives you time to go get a cup of coffee and a snack while it loads.

[JimBob]

Trouble maker.   That spot is not good on the negative and I never noticed it, guess I just glanced and thought it was a spoke on the wheel.  Spent more time looking in the wagon.





Looks to be another Ballard to me, is that what you think?

I told you, the collection can be addicting.  Wish there was more where we had the negative to work with.  Of course there is the Brady Collection, it's on American Memory also, btw it's had the funding to be rescanned at ever higher res.  Even on a good computer and a good connection that one gives you time to go get a cup of coffee and a snack while it loads.

I can't help myself,I like those "busy" pictures with all the paraphenalia in them.It kind of looked like he was leaning on the wheel then I noticed the wheel was blocked out a little.Yep,it's another Ballard.I'd almost bet that's a "Montana" model in the .45 2 7/8.Those folks are armed for bear for certain sure.Whadya bet there's a handgun or two and a shotgun in that wagon?

[Delmonico]

I can't help myself,I like those "busy" pictures with all the paraphenalia in them.It kind of looked like he was leaning on the wheel then I noticed the wheel was blocked out a little.Yep,it's another Ballard.I'd almost bet that's a "Montana" model in the .45 2 7/8.Those folks are armed for bear for certain sure.Whadya bet there's a handgun or two and a shotgun in that wagon?

Another addict.

[JimBob]

Another addict.

LOL I wish he were turned a little bit to see what looks to be a big knife or skinning outfit on his belt.Wonder why they're carrying thos big guns at that date?What was there to hunt at that date in Nebraska?Makes you wonder if they were coming,going,or just passing through on the way to someplace like Montana or Wyoming.

[Delmonico]

LOL I wish he were turned a little bit to see what looks to be a big knife or skinning outfit on his belt.Wonder why they're carrying thos big guns at that date?What was there to hunt at that date in Nebraska?Makes you wonder if they were coming,going,or just passing through on the way to someplace like Montana or Wyoming.

I'm gonna have to teach you to clean up photos I guess, I'm calling it a wagon spoke and effect caused by deterioration of the negative plate:



In the notes:

In 1985, James L. Jones, great-grandson of the man at the far right, identified the photograph: left to right, Samuel E. "Dick" Tuck, Maude Tuck, May Tuck, and Jim Roberts, Samuel Tuck's cousin. This photograph shows the Tuck family passing through the South Loup Valley. The Tuck's stopped in Litchfiled, Nebraska, for a while before proceeding north to Montana. At the time the photograph was made, two of the Tuck children, Leona and Ira, were asleep in the wagon and therefore not pictured.

[JimBob]

LOL Give me one of those Gibb's headslaps.I didn't even bother to scroll down the page and look at the rest of the information.Just clicked on the pic for the larger view.I obsessed on the rifles.A point for the stupid side. 

Clean up negatives,heck I'm still figuring out how to use this thang.

[Stu Kettle]

Del, you posted this one in the pistols thread, but i still want to know what this rifle is.

[Delmonico]

LOL Give me one of those Gibb's headslaps.I didn't even bother to scroll down the page and look at the rest of the information.Just clicked on the pic for the larger view.I obsessed on the rifles.A point for the stupid side. 

Clean up negatives,heck I'm still figuring out how to use this thang.

Well when you get to that point give me a hollor, the program I use is down-loadable and free.

If you ever get out this way let me know, I know John Carter who made the pictures going on-line happen.  He wrote this book several years ago:

http://www.amazon.com/Solomon-D-Butcher-Photographing-American/dp/0803214049

I bet if we bought him lunch he'd make it worth our while.

[Delmonico]

Del, you posted this one in the pistols thread, but i still want to know what this rifle is.

Sorry, I haven't got to that one yet, I have one more gun thread to go, that one is a bit strange, ain't really a rifle but not really a shotgun.  I'll try to get to it tonight, got just a bit to do yet on the odd ones.

[JimBob]

Sorry, I haven't got to that one yet, I have one more gun thread to go, that one is a bit strange, ain't really a rifle but not really a shotgun.  I'll try to get to it tonight, got just a bit to do yet on the odd ones.

Guys,google search "Flobert rifle",you'll find pictures of similiar on the auction sites.They're also pictured in the repro Sears Roebuck catalogs of the period.An inexpensive .22 rifle.

LOL I've GOT to learn how to clean up those pictures for sure,I'm missing too much stuff.

Is that a "rag rug" being used as a saddle blanket?Maw willbe looking for him.

[Delmonico]

Guys,google search "Flobert rifle",you'll find pictures of similiar on the auction sites.They're also pictured in the repro Sears Roebuck catalogs of the period.An inexpensive .22 rifle.

You are pretty sharp, we decide several years ago that one was a 9mm.  Most were smoothbore and shot either a round ball or a shot load in a papper case.  I have a couple of the 22 caliber shotshells and have seen the 9mm ones.

[JimBob]

You are pretty sharp, we decide several years ago that one was a 9mm.  Most were smoothbore and shot either a round ball or a shot load in a papper case.  I have a couple of the 22 caliber shotshells and have seen the 9mm ones.

I think I have one of the 9mm shotshells.I was going to look in the Sears 1900 catalog and see if they showed one similiar to that one illustrated showing a stock and triggerguard.I'm not sure I haven't looked at one  in .32 short rimfire before.Most all I have owned or seen were .22s some with rifling still showing.Similiar looking are also found listed as "Warnant(?) Action" flobert rifles.LOL I've owned a lot of this stuff in the last 60 years.Used to be pretty active at the area gun shows till legs started giving out.Liked those pictures showing the M1887 Winchesters in the shotgun thread,got one Great Granddad bought new in 1896.Just wish I had some pictures like those with him in it.

What's your take on the pistol?Never messed much with those ,they were usually in terrible shape when I saw them.

RE the 9mm shotshell.One time I had a small display of old shotshells at a show.That one was no.1 and the last one was a 2 bore English punt gun casing about 6 inches long.BIG difference.