Bullet Alloys for Black Powder

[Springfield Slim]

HMM, interesting. So how do you adjust the size of the bullet by varying the temperature if you don't have a thermometer? Sounds like too much guesswork to me, I'll just stick to larger moulds. I didn't like the "big 20 lb LEE pot", so I went and bought a Magma 40 pounder. Much easier to keep a consistant temperature. Although I have found over the years that mould temp affects the bullet much more than alloy temp. Never could get the hang of ladle casting, plus doing 2-3000 at a time just took too dang long. Savvy Jack, casting your own gets much easier with experience. After a while you just get a "feel" for what works, especially if you use the same mould all the time. All of your bullets shown would work fine for your average cowboy shoot, but it is nice when you can cast a batch and almost all of them are perfect.

[Mako]

Although I have found over the years that mould temp affects the bullet much more than alloy temp. Never could get the hang of ladle casting, plus doing 2-3000 at a time just took too dang long.

Springfield,
You are so right there, I had wondered if anyone was going to address it.  You can have the most stable pot in the world and your mold temperature will either make or break you.  The following is not addressed to you because you are a high volume caster and know the following from experience.

The same is true with any hot casting or molding process, whether it be metal casting, plastic injection molding, die casting, etc.  Molds are either heated or cooled to maintain the optimum fill temperatures.

You really notice the difference in consistent mold temperatures with an automated lead caster like the Magma Bullet Master.  You remelt the first 5 to 10 minutes of bullets and then maintain the pot level, adjust your mold cooling blowers and it casts the same all day long.

As the ambient temperature changed we changed the carousel cycle time and the cooling blower speeds more than the alloy temperature to get excellent looking wrinkle and frost free bullets.  You don't even turn on the blowers for the first ten minutes or so it's the mold temperatures that have to rise and then be stabilized not the alloy. 

The alloy was the next critical factor in the fill out we were always fighting to keep the pot as cool as possible not using it to control the bullet fill or condition, the mold temp controls that.

For hand casting I have used a hot plate with a thick  aluminum heat sink as a parking place for the mold. It keeps the mold at a relatively consistent temperature.  If the bullets are wrinkled I throw three or four casts and then remelt those and put the mold on the plate and develop a rhythm to keep it there.  If they are beginning to frost it is getting too hot and I set it back on the plate for a minute to let it actually cool to the plate temperature setting.  I have tried to set it aside to cool it but I always over shoot and end up with wrinkled bullets and have to build back up.

People should listen to you, you have the bona fides to back your statements.  It's all about the mold temperature...

Regards,
Mako

[Bryan Austin]

HMM, interesting. So how do you adjust the size of the bullet by varying the temperature if you don't have a thermometer? Sounds like too much guesswork to me, I'll just stick to larger moulds. I didn't like the "big 20 lb LEE pot", so I went and bought a Magma 40 pounder. Much easier to keep a consistant temperature. Although I have found over the years that mould temp affects the bullet much more than alloy temp. Never could get the hang of ladle casting, plus doing 2-3000 at a time just took too dang long. Savvy Jack, casting your own gets much easier with experience. After a while you just get a "feel" for what works, especially if you use the same mould all the time. All of your bullets shown would work fine for your average cowboy shoot, but it is nice when you can cast a batch and almost all of them are perfect.

Thanks Slim,
I did weigh a few bullets when they "looked" different such as frosted etc. They did weigh different but.....I just ain't that far down the road yet!

[Fox Creek Kid]

I've used a bottom pour furnace and the nail trick to clear the spout. It's ok for PISTOL bullets. It is not however worth a damn for large Sharps style bullets as you cannot get the lead into the mould fast enough for proper "fillage".

The best & fastest way to cast IMO per my experiences is on a turkey burner with a large pot of melt where temp variation is not an issue and using a ladle to pour. The only problem is a proper cadence to keep from overheating the mould. I do use a lead thermometer as I want to know EXACTLY what the temp is as I know which moulds I own cast best at what temps. That however can & does vary with the weather.

[Cuts Crooked]

I do use a lead thermometer as I want to know EXACTLY what the temp is as I know which moulds I own cast best at what temps. That however can & does vary with the weather.

Huh? I didn' think that would be a problem in yer trailer!

[Driftwood Johnson]

I love my bottom pour pot. I keep a pair of vise grips with a small finishing nail (1" long brad) clamped in the jaws. Whenever the pour spout gets clogged or begins to dribble I shove the nail up into the spout with one hand while holding the spout open with the other hand.

Goldang, thanks. That's a great idea. I never thunk of that one. I'm gonna make up one of them for my next casting session. I usually keep a short piece of piano wire on hand and shove it up there with a pliers when the spout starts to drip. I too always have an ingot mold sitting under the spout to catch the drips. I'm getting a bit tired of my Lee pot dripping all the time. I may upgrade to a Lyman for my next casting session. Does anybody know if the Lymans tend to drip too?

Regarding using two different alloys, I think I am the one who mentioned that. It really is no big deal at all. I figured out my two alloys a long time ago. For my Mav-Dutchman's I cast with pure lead. For my PRS and J/P 45-200s I throw in two ounces of tin for every 10 pounds of lead. At least I think that is the ratio, I have it downstairs in my notes.

I usually only sit down to cast once a year, so it is no big deal to keep track of my two different alloys. I don't cast commercially, just enough to keep myself in Black Powder bullets. If I was casting commercially, I suppose I might invest in custom molds. Just doing it once a year, maybe for a whole weekend, I just keep using the Lee molds the way they came. As I said before, or maybe I didn't, Lee's QC is a little bit lax and they sometimes let through a mold which some other outfits might consider out of spec.

I do use a thermometer to keep track of my alloy temperature.

[hellgate]

Driftwood,
I also do alot of twisting on the plunger with a screwdriver to seat it into the spout to stop drips but the nail in the vise grips opens up the spout and  unclogs it when the pour slows down. Every once in a while I take the cooled down pot apart and remove the plunger and clean out the area where it rests to remove a coupla year's worth of buildup.

[Fairshake]

I have been casting since 1970 and I still learn from members of several different forums. The Lee products will keep you pulling out your hair. I sent several of the moulds back because of size problems. A poster stated earlier that they have a big swing in what will pass. Most I have paid for are too small. You order a 455 and receive a 451. It will not work. For the record this thread has some valuable info. I have found as Slim has that the custom mould is the way to go. I also do as Mako stated and that is use a hot plate. I have been for awhile now using a alloy that reads 10BHN as that equates to a 20-1 alloy. I shoot 100% BP and nothing else. All my shooting from paper to hair and SASS matches is with BP. I have found the best way for me is to use two identical moulds. Mine are custom made three cavity made by Accurate Moulds for $119 to your door. They are made of brass which after all these years has become my favorite material for moulds. I turn on the hot plate and my RCBS bottom pour at the same time. The moulds are rotated and after dropping a pour,they are refilled and sat back on the hotplate and the next mould is dropped and the process begins over again. The bullets are at zero rejects using this method. WW's in Louisiana were at one time all around 9-9.5 BHN but that has changed and I use other types of lead for smelting my alloy. One of my sources is the lead containers for radioactive containers that are used by hospitals and Doctor's. This lead is dead on 10BHN. I use a small amount of tin at times if fillout is not where I like it. Elmer Keith in his day used several hundred pounds of bullets in the 8 BHN area while making 44 mag loads.

[Montana Slim]

Use a bit of care cleaning the pour spout with nails & such...These things have a limited life..but using a hardened, sharp, steel poker won't make it last longer. When they drip too much, my tip is to tap the pour hole to fit a screw, remove the pour handle and use it as a ladle-pour pot.

BTW, referring to original post topic, I favor 30-1 alloy...but only control this for 500 grain bullets for my Sharps. anything from 20-1 & harder for CAS targets out to practical ranges for these firearms (150 yds?). Pure lead for the C&B revolvers and CW single-shot Carbines.

Regrads,
Slim

[Fox Creek Kid]

Huh? I didn' think that would be a problem in yer trailer!

A wisenheimer, eh? 

[Noz]

Nobody has mentioned the value of fluxing in reducing wear on your aluminum molds. It took me several round ball molds damaged before I figured that out. Dirty lead will allow grit to eat away at the top opening of the mold where the sprue plate rests. As you cut the sprue, the grit eats at the aluminum. I flux excessively now and have eliminated the problem.

[Mako]

I flux excessively now and have eliminated the problem.

Hmmmm, true tales of hygiene from Noz. 

[Springfield Slim]

I flux everytime I start the pot again. Works out to about every 75-100 lbs or so. Run over 100,000 bullets through my LEE 44-40 Big Lube mould and it still works fine so must be doing something right.

[Noz]

The Lee aluminum round ball molds have a paper thin opening in the mold so that there is no sprue. This is what is damaged.  the pour holes become egg shaped, then begin to create surface voids. I ruined one while casting about 200 balls with poorly processed lead pipe. The calcium build up in the pipe acted like valve grinding compound.

I admit my stupidity because I didn't have the guidance that is now available on the web. Take the advice of those that have already screwed up so you don't have to.

[Montana Slim]

The Lee aluminum round ball molds have a paper thin opening in the mold so that there is no sprue. This is what is damaged.  the pour holes become egg shaped, then begin to create surface voids. I ruined one while casting about 200 balls with poorly processed lead pipe. The calcium build up in the pipe acted like valve grinding compound.

I thought I might be wearing out my first Lee 454 RB mold....I've pinned, screwed and/or peened all the parts that eventually will fall out....so I bought a new one a couple years back. Good news is the original one still casts great balls....now I can alternate between the two while casting. Oh...I bought the first one back in 1974 & has made a  LOT of balls. Lead pipe is my preferred source of lead, too. I buy pretty clean scrap, so it needs no more fluxing than the high-$$ plumbers lead I've used in the past.
Agree, you do have to be gentle around those RB cavities.

Slim

[john boy]

Nobody has mentioned the value of fluxing in reducing wear on your aluminum molds. It took me several round ball molds damaged before I figured that out. Dirty lead will allow grit to eat away at the top opening of the mold where the sprue plate rests. As you cut the sprue, the grit eats at the aluminum. I flux excessively now and have eliminated the problem.

Noz, it is a shame that your molds were 'destroyed' due to lack of fluxing when you 1st started to cast.  We all become more advanced doing the required steps, aka flux the melt good to remove the dross before dipping. Betcha your round balls now have no inclusions.  Do have to ask, how bad were the RB's before when you didn't flux?  And what flux are you using now?

[Montana Slim]

BTW, if those molds get a bit out of shape at the sprue(less) hole, I have a fix......provided you can find a steel ball on a rod. I have one & it's perfect to put in the cavity, with the rod out thru the sprue plate, then close the mold & swedge the aluminum back against the sprue plate. I "ironed-out" my old mold as part of its rehabilitation process. I'd say the holes in my old mold were also a tad egg-shaped...but I trued the hole with a slightly larger drill bit (by hand, with a hand-tap handle). The balls still look/shoot well. I cast about 35 lbs of .454 in 2009, still working on them. Might need to cast another batch this fall 

Slim