Cimarron or Uberti ?

icemaster109 · January 12, 2011, 10:02:57 PM

So I balled up, got super excited and ordered two Cimarron Model P 357s. Sadly, minutes after I placed my order online, I got a call from the dealer, and the pistols are out of stock and they don't know when they are going to get some in (it could be months he said but he assured me they are on order and would notify me ASAP on the status). In that failed endeavor I began to find a few places that had the same gun except made by Uberti directly.

Which made me think - Should I hold out for the Cimarron's? or are the Uberti's just as good? Whats the difference?

Pettifogger · January 12, 2011, 11:00:10 PM

Cimarrons ARE Ubertis. Cimarron is just a distributor. Uberti is the manufacturer and sells to many distributors. As long as the gun is made by Uberti and is the model you want, it doesn't matter what distributor name is stamped on it.

Jefro · January 12, 2011, 11:44:44 PM

What Pettifogger said, Cimarrons ARE Ubertis, as are Taylors, can't go wrong with thier service. Good Luck
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/

Jefro

Deadeye Don · January 13, 2011, 06:20:05 AM

I will throw my vote behind Taylors as well. Good luck getting the gun (s) you want.

icemaster109 · January 13, 2011, 09:15:09 AM

Well in that case, can anyone point me in the right direction of the cheapest place to buy myself a pair of a 5.5in .357s that are currently in stock?

PS. I always thought ubertis has some difference in the safety and hammers? is that true?

Rev. Cain · January 13, 2011, 09:51:26 AM

Quote from: icemaster109 on January 13, 2011, 09:15:09 AM
Well in that case, can anyone point me in the right direction of the cheapest place to buy myself a pair of a 5.5in .357s that are currently in stock?

PS. I always thought ubertis has some difference in the safety and hammers? is that true?

Try Gene. I know he has the 4 3/4 in stock, not sure on the 5 1/2's.
http://www.evilroyshootingschool.com/

Deadeye Don · January 13, 2011, 10:02:18 AM

Quote from: icemaster109 on January 13, 2011, 09:15:09 AM
Well in that case, can anyone point me in the right direction of the cheapest place to buy myself a pair of a 5.5in .357s that are currently in stock?

PS. I always thought ubertis has some difference in the safety and hammers? is that true?

As has been stated Uberti is the manufacturer of the guns, and places like Taylors and Cimmaron are the distributors of the guns. Therefore, the guns are already made when they arrive on our shore line.

Jefro · January 13, 2011, 12:06:13 PM

Another option is to go ahead and buy direct from one of the many gunsmiths that offer package deals. If you were considering an action job these come at a reduced cost, and avoid having to pay for shipping back and forth to a gunsmith once you buy a gun. Sumpin' to think about. I have bought several guns from Cody, Pioneer Gun Works, and Longhunter, all well woth the cost. Good Luck
http://www.codyscowboyshop.com/
http://www.pioneergunworks.com/page9.html
http://www.longhunt.com/

Jefro

Cliff Fendley · January 13, 2011, 02:17:58 PM

Well the Cimarron's may be Uberti's but a friend and I both have some rifle and pistols in both and can tell you trait up the Cimarron's are smoother and have better triggers out of the box. A big difference on the 73 rifles. My buddy's Cimarron model P came out of the box very sweet as well.

Pettifogger · January 13, 2011, 04:36:24 PM

Quote from: Cliff Fendley on January 13, 2011, 02:17:58 PM
Well the Cimarron's may be Uberti's but a friend and I both have some rifle and pistols in both and can tell you trait up the Cimarron's are smoother and have better triggers out of the box. A big difference on the 73 rifles. My buddy's Cimarron model P came out of the box very sweet as well.

That is purely coincidence. Just like every other mass produced mechanical device some are better than others of the same make and model. I have Cimarrons, Navy Arms, EMF, Stoeger and Taylors and there is no inherent one is "smoother" than another because of importer. They all come from the same factory and get shipped on the same boat. I've gotten guns that came in a box marked Stoeger but the barrels were marked Cimarron. Some function fine out of the box, others need work regardless of importer.

Shotgun Franklin · January 13, 2011, 08:44:44 PM

I have owned an Uberti and a Taylor by Uberti. The Taylor has beet grained wood that fits better. The Taylor action is smoother. The Taylor's hammer is case hardened, or so it appears and the Uberta is not.

Cliff Fendley · January 13, 2011, 10:53:33 PM

I've been told that even though the Cimarrons and Taylors are Uberti they have had more refined work done to them, sort of custom shop you might say.

I have no idea if that is true or just a bunch of bologna but the actions on the guns I've compared sitting in the racks at my local gun shop, gun shows, and in mine and my friends safes would say so. My local gun shop owner is the one that pointed out to compare the actions on the Cimarron and Uberti.

Deadeye Don · January 14, 2011, 06:02:13 AM

Quote from: Cliff Fendley on January 13, 2011, 10:53:33 PM
I've been told that even though the Cimarrons and Taylors are Uberti they have had more refined work done to them, sort of custom shop you might say.

I have no idea if that is true or just a bunch of bologna but the actions on the guns I've compared sitting in the racks at my local gun shop, gun shows, and in mine and my friends safes would say so. My local gun shop owner is the one that pointed out to compare the actions on the Cimarron and Uberti.

I will go ahead and quote Pettifogger for your benefit.

"Cimarrons ARE Ubertis. Cimarron is just a distributor. Uberti is the manufacturer and sells to many distributors. As long as the gun is made by Uberti and is the model you want, it doesn't matter what distributor name is stamped on it."

Driftwood Johnson · January 14, 2011, 07:21:35 AM

QuoteI've been told that even though the Cimarrons and Taylors are Uberti they have had more refined work done to them, sort of custom shop you might say.

Howdy

That is a myth. Some years ago Cimarron was making statements in their advertising that their guns were better. Apparently a lot of folks believed it. I can tell you that I had a Cimarron Cattleman a number of years ago that had the wost trigger pull of any revolver I have ever owned. Inside it was full of burrs. On top of that, the front sight was tilted to one side. Some superior quality! I finally got rid of it. I have another Cimarron Cattleman that is better, but there was a void in the hammer casting right near the cam. I had to do a lot of smoothing to get the bolt leg to ride over the cam properly.

I have been inside enough Uberti made guns to tell you that ALL of them, including those sold by Cimarron, have plenty of burrs and rough machined surfaces inside. Uberti rushes their machining in order to pump out as many parts as possible to keep up with demand. They push their CNC machines too fast so that there are rough surfaces and burrs on the finished parts then they slap them together with a bare minimum of fitting. The springs are stronger than needed because of all the friction inside that has to be overcome with the burrs and rough finish. I repeat, this is the same inside ALL Uberti guns, including those sold by Cimarron. If you get one with nicer wood, or a smoother action from somebody, it is dumb luck.

When you pay a smith to do an action job on an Uberti made gun, you are paying him to correct those conditions that Uberti left in the gun. But Uberti does not have a custom shop in operation for any of its distributors, they box them up and ship them as fast as they can.

I had an interesting conversation with the gunsmith at Taylors a few years ago. Yes, Taylors does employ a smith. He told me he unwraps every gun and checks it for function. The really bad ones he does a little bit of work on to bring them up to snuff. Otherwise, they go right into stock.

Cliff Fendley · January 14, 2011, 08:36:13 AM

Quote from: Driftwood Johnson on January 14, 2011, 07:21:35 AM
Howdy

That is a myth.

I had an interesting conversation with the gunsmith at Taylors a few years ago. Yes, Taylors does employ a smith. He told me he unwraps every gun and checks it for function. The really bad ones he does a little bit of work on to bring them up to snuff. Otherwise, they go right into stock.

So when it comes to Taylors it's not a myth but the difference we've seen with the Cimarrons is coincidental, correct?

Driftwood Johnson · January 14, 2011, 02:07:33 PM

QuoteSo when it comes to Taylors it's not a myth but the difference we've seen with the Cimarrons is coincidental, correct?

That's not what I said.

What I said is that the smith at Taylor's takes the really bad ones, in other words the ones that barely work at all, and makes them work OK. That is not the same as making them into sweet shooters, as some claim Cimarron does.

When they get a shipment at Taylors, somebody takes them out and works the action a few times. If they are OK, they go right on the shelf. If they have an obvious problem they go to the smith to be made right. Not a custom action job, just making them work as they are supposed to.

Taylors also fits R&D cylinders to 1858 Remingtons for no charge. Buy them from anybody else and they may drop right in, they may not. But if you send a 1858 Remmie to Taylors and ask to have it mated to a R&D cylinder they will fit it for no charge. Yes, you have to buy the cylinder, but the fitting is free. I had them do an old EuroArms Remmie of mine a few years ago. That's when I had the conversation with the smith about fixing Ubertis that don't work properly.

If you think you are going to get a custom sweet shooter without paying an arm and a leg more I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I am thinking of selling.

Pettifogger · January 14, 2011, 02:25:58 PM

In addition to what Driftwood said, Taylor's and Cimarron both have "upgraded" versions of the Uberti. The Evil Roy, Smokewagon, etc. are given mild action jobs. Some in-house, some outsourced. If you compare one of these to a standard Uberti they are better. However, bottom line is a Uberti is a Uberti. Virtually any gun used for competition needs an action job and even the "upgraded" versions can be improved. I've pulled one out of a box and it was actually pretty good. Pulled its sequential number mate out and it was rougher than a corncob. I never even shoot these guns until I have completely disassembled them and gone through them and given them action jobs.

Rev. Cain · January 14, 2011, 02:53:18 PM

Quote from: Pettifogger on January 14, 2011, 02:25:58 PM
In addition to what Driftwood said, Taylor's and Cimarron both have "upgraded" versions of the Uberti. The Evil Roy, Smokewagon, etc. are given mild action jobs. Some in-house, some outsourced. If you compare one of these to a standard Uberti they are better. However, bottom line is a Uberti is a Uberti. Virtually any gun used for competition needs an action job and even the "upgraded" versions can be improved. I've pulled one out of a box and it was actually pretty good. Pulled its sequential number mate out and it was rougher than a corncob. I never even shoot these guns until I have completely disassembled them and gone through them and given them action jobs.

I guess what you fellers is saying is if you buy an Uberti/Cimarron buy it from a place that actually uses a smith for other than re-work......
Whoever ER has do the work does a purty good job, except the trigger may be a little lite for the spastic-handed (like me). I'm twitchy. I need a little slop maybe. Next time I'll try a Taylor. Hehe.
And no offense to anyone but what gun you buy/shoot isn't gonna make the difference between a champ and a chump. Unless you have a complete POS that plain wont fire. If you think your pistol is what is holding back I've got a bridge for you as well. In Brooklyn.
Have a nice day. May the Lord bless you.

Jefro · January 14, 2011, 04:02:18 PM

Quote from: Cliff Fendley on January 14, 2011, 08:36:13 AM
So when it comes to Taylors it's not a myth but the difference we've seen with the Cimarrons is coincidental, correct?

What DJ said, they check em to see if they function. I've bought Ubertis from most of the importers;
Cimarron - pair of Model Ps (worked fine out ot the box, still sent them to Cody for a little action work)
Cimarron Lightings - (would barely function, one had a broken bolt, sent them to Cody, came back like dfferent guns)
Cimarron Win 73 - (action by Cowboys and Indians, wood not as nice as the EMF)
EMF Win 73 (action by Pioneer Gun Works, nicest Uberti I've ever owned, beautifull wood fit and finish)
Taylors Smokewagons - (straight from Cody, nuff said)

The pistols I'm shooting now are EMF Great Western II by Pietta, nice out of the box, I deburred and smoothed them just like I would an Uberti

added a set of Gunslinger springs, now they shoot great.

Jefro

Cliff Fendley · January 19, 2011, 06:12:02 PM

I just found out today that Cimarron are going to Pietti. Not sure when or how the change is to take place but that is the word and it came from a reliable source. Anybody else heard this?