Sharps 50/70 Carbine

[Fox Creek Kid]

I've tried that technique before, steel wool wrapped around a bore brush.  There are what looks like lumps of something in the bore.  Maybe it is lead.  The bore does look terrible.  Not worn, just real gunky.

I want to shoot the 50/70 round and I have only one gun in that caliber, the little Sharps carbine.  If they made a replica Allen trapdoor, which were mostly made in 50/70 I'd buy one of those.  (I think some were .58 caliber rim fires.)

Buy some BRONZE wool at a local hardware store or from Brownell's. It won't harm the bore. If it is indeed lead it will come out after a few passes. Trust me, nothing works better for lead removal. Wrap a tuft of bronze wool around a .45 cal. (yes, .45) to make a tight fit and use some solvent.

There was a reproduction '66 Alin 50-70 for sale on the Internet approx. ten years ago. Apparently an Italian maker made a special run for the US Parks Service to use as props in some museums acorrding to the ad. How this person got it to sell publicly & if this is true I do not know. I do however remember the ad.

[Dead I]

I'd like a repro Allen trapdoor.  I recall seeing originals years ago that weren't all that expensive, but I don't think I ever saw a repro.  I think I can order a Remington Rolling block in 50/70 which would be like Custer's rifle.  I'll have to see. 

[StrawHat]

Chore Boy makes a brass or bronze scrub pad for kitchen use.  I unroll a thread and wrap it around a bore brush.  It removes lead nicely.  Unaware of any 1866 reproductions out the.  Originals are available for about what a repro 1873 costs, or less.

Two great Trapdoor sites.

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/

http://www.trapdoors.com/

[Dead I]

I just found a source for the guns that were issued to the seventh cavalry during the Indian Wars.  In 1867 they were issued Spencer's, mostly 50 caliber.  By 1871 they were issued 50 caliber Sharps carbines.  It wasn't until 1874 that they were issued .45 caliber Springfields. The source is pages 275 to 279 in Reedstrom's Bugles, Banners and War Bonnets.

So Custer's troops were issued all three weapons.  There was also mention of some 50 calliber Remingtons in 1874.

[Trailrider]

I just found a source for the guns that were issued to the seventh cavalry during the Indian Wars.  In 1867 they were issued Spencer's, mostly 50 caliber.  By 1871 they were issued 50 caliber Sharps carbines.  It wasn't until 1874 that they were issued .45 caliber Springfields. The source is pages 275 to 279 in Reedstrom's Bugles, Banners and War Bonnets.

So Custer's troops were issued all three weapons.  There was also mention of some 50 calliber Remingtons in 1874.

Right! Can't get at my records now, but there was also was a period around 1870-72 when the Ordnance Dept. issued a limited number of Remington Rolling Blocks, M1870 Trapdoor Carbines, and some Ward-Burton Carbines, all cal. .50-70, for trials.  Can't recall if the 7th got any of the last two.  Different companies of the 7th had M1860 Spencer Carbines (.56-56) and M1865 Spencers in .56-50.  Must have caused quite a bit of confusion, although you could fire .56-50's in a .56-56 chamber.  With BP and soft lead bullets the smaller slugs might not rattle down the bore! 

Another interesting sidelight to all of this is the fact that when Lt. Fred Beecher was appointed 2nd in command of Forsyth's Scouts, he was the Adjutant of the 3rd INFANTRY, and the 7th Cavalry had companies at the various posts where the Scouts were enlisted (Fts. Hays and Harker).  Allegedly, the Scouts carried Spencer Carbines, calibers unstated.  But Major Forsyth stated that the scouts were issued "Spencer rifles".  However, adding to the confusion, the listings in the Ordnance records show the Spencer carbines under that catagory, but list them as "Spencer Repeating Rifles, cal. .50 or .54".  But there is another wrinkle to this:  The 3rd Infantry was the ONLY infantry unit west of the Mississippi that was issued repeating weapons in this timeframe.  And these were..."Spencer Repeating Rifles, cal. 54, with triangular bayonet", i.e., these were NOT carbines.  The question, which I have thusfar been unable to determine is did Beecher issue at least part of the arms for Forsyth's Scouts from 3rd Infantry stores, and also possibly some carbines from 7th Cavalry, which he might have been authorized to do, since the 7th units at his post were what we would call "tenant" units at the 3rd Infantry posts where he was stationed!

[shrapnel]

Hey Shrapnel !  Do you own those Sharps rifles?  Are the all originals?  Even if replicas they look like a very nice collection of Sharps Rifles. I own one replica, the Axtell 1877.  It's a nice looking rifle, very pretty actually.  I don't read much about them, I guess they competed tooth and nail with Shiloh Arms which is doing great.  I don't think the Axtell people are and I read that they are for sale.  However my Axtell loos great.

We'll have to start a thread on Sharps rifles of all kinds.

Those are my Sharps, the top 2 are Shiloh's, the bottom 2 are Originals.

The top is a 45-70 that I got from Mike Venturino, who writes extensively about BPCR and it was one of the first 48 made in Montana when they moved their plant to Montana.

The second is a 45-70 that was donated by Shiloh to Montana Outfitters and Guides Association for their fund raising banquet.

The 3rd is the 50-70 I got from Mike Venturino, it has been written about many times in his ownership.

The 4th is an original buffalo rifle made in 1877 by Walter Cooper of Bozeman Montana, Territory. Cooper built a number of rifles specifically for the hunting of buffalo near the end of that era. It is extremely rare and chambered in 40-90 Sharps bottleneck.

[Dead I]

I've been scrubbing the bore of my 50/70 Sharps for the last two hours.  It looks a little better and I'm pretty sure that it's lead in there that's causing the problem.  I got some copper cleaning pads and a stanless steel one too.  I need to get the bronze pads.  I think I'll try Brownell's.  I can kind of see where globs of lead have stuck to the barrel.  It goes from breech to muzzle, but the lands still have sharp edges.  I'm not going to use the stainless steel pads anymore...I'm afraid they'll screw up the bore.

By the time they were making these Sharps rifles I think they were using steel and not iron that they made so many muskets with. Now my gun room stinks like solvent, which I rather like, but my wife won't.  Maybe I should lock the door.