Authentic Patterns for belts and holster.

Scout53 · December 31, 2010, 08:00:59 AM

I am thinking about making a holster and belt in a late 1800's "Western" pattern but I am not sure what patterns are considered authentic. Are the Tandy gun belt and holster patterns authentic? If not do you have any suggestions?
This will be my first attempt at this and I think that having a pattern will be very helpful.
I would like to make a typical cross draw holster for a single action, nothing fancy a plain "working" rig.
I appreciate your help.

buckskin billy · December 31, 2010, 08:23:21 AM

many of us use will ghormley's patterns . his patterns supllies patterns for many different old west guns and in strong side or cross draw as well as carving patterns and the tools needed to complete the job.

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/OWC.html

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/OWC2.html

hope this helps

TwoWalks Baldridge · December 31, 2010, 09:03:17 AM

Quote from: buckskin billy on December 31, 2010, 08:23:21 AM
many of us use will ghormley's patterns . his patterns supllies patterns for many different old west guns and in strong side or cross draw as well as carving patterns and the tools needed to complete the job.

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/OWC.html

http://www.willghormley-maker.com/OWC2.html

hope this helps

This is the route I am taking. I have gathered a few tools like mallet, swivel knife and a half dozen stamps and been practicing, practicing and then practicing some more. In another week I will be picking up some leather to make my first holster, considering how well I am doing, I will pick up enough for three holsters so I end up with one. I have 3 of Will Ghormley's pattern packs and even I can understand them and recognize their quality.

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · December 31, 2010, 09:10:51 AM

Howdy Scout53

Welcome to our forum pard, buckskin billy and "TwoWalks" Baldridge pointed you in the right direction for period gun leather, Will Ghormley has helped all of us get started, his patterns are first class, and easy to understand, so you can't go wrong with any of them, and he has a wide variety of choices. this is a great place to ask questions and get a number of good answers, so make yourself at home, and be sure to post a picture of your holster when finished.

Regards

tEN wOLVES

Slowhand Bob · December 31, 2010, 10:39:10 AM

Yes Tandy has had some original style patterns offered through the years, often mixed in with later versions. My favorite were two sets offered many years back based on the Slim Jim pattern on one and the second was a skirted style based on the early version Mexican Loops that still retained a lot of the looks of a Slim Jim. Through the years they offered them as reprints several times but I have not noticed them recently, perhaps because I haven't been watching??? I am a double thumbs up fan of the Ghormley pattern sets and he well covers many of the many early variations. I do occasionally see the used Tandy patterns mentioned offered on EBay. If I can be of further help, let me know.

Marshal Will Wingam · December 31, 2010, 07:38:09 PM

Welcome to the forum, Scout 53. The pards here have steered you right. Will has some very authentic patterns. Like Bob, I've found authentic patterns from Tandy in past years. I don't know what they offer now but if you see something that you may be interested in, post a link here and let the forum members take a look. They'll be honest with you and offer great feedback.

Looking forward to seeing and hearing about your first rig. We all had first ones and it's really great to see someone else get ~~addicted~~ started.

buckskin billy · December 31, 2010, 10:02:09 PM

i have noticed in the past tandy sells will's pattern sets. the old west collections is will's

Cliff Fendley · January 03, 2011, 06:17:47 PM

You can buy some of Will Gormley's at Tandy because I've seen them there.

Some of Will's I've seen made are authentic looking but I've not been able to find any that are truly like a lot of the old holsters I see at shows and like you see in "Packing Iron".

You likely will have to make your own if there is a certain holster you want.

F. A. Meanea's work of the 1880,s is my favorite of the old west saddlers. Maybe someone makes those patterns that I haven't seen but I measured, made, altered, made another, took them and compared to originals in collections at gun shows, altered, and so on until I've got two FA Meanea patterns that are about as absolutely as close as you can get them to some of the originals. I have made some on purpose alterations such as a little wide where it folds over the belt for stability and a little more roomy to allow my stitching to be a little farther in from the edge. The originals have such close stitching close to the edge that I'm afraid it wouldn't hold up to Cowboy action shooting.

Once you have a couple patterns that you know works it's not hard at all to make a new one by looking at a picture. You know to keep it about the same size as the one you got for fit and make the alterations from there.

I've thought about offering some patterns for sale but don't know how to go about it or whether there would be enough interest.

Dalton Masterson · January 03, 2011, 08:29:47 PM

Welcome Scout 53!
The current Tandy kits are not authentic, but some of the pattern packs are pretty good. I like Will's, as mentioned before. With his patterns, you can alter to suit your needs pretty easily, or just build right off the pattern.

Cliff,
I think there is definately interest. It seems to me that leatherworking is growing in popularity again. I dont know if SASS/CAS is doing it, or the economy, or just a new found desire to build something, but there are lots of people at least trying to make their own stuff. Make patterns, they will come....
DM

Trailrider · January 03, 2011, 10:40:58 PM

As an alternative, and to get close to original holsters, take a look at holsters in the book, "Packing Iron". This won't provide you with the actual patterns, but you can get close by using heavy craft paper, wrapping it around your favorite gun, and then stapling the seam. Trim the edges just outside the staple line and then remove the staples, flatten the paper out and glue it to mat board. Leave a little extra room as leather is thicker than paper. It may take a try or two, but once you have the pattern you can keep it and reuse it whenever...

buckskin billy · January 03, 2011, 10:42:13 PM

Cliff,
I think there is definately interest. It seems to me that leatherworking is growing in popularity again. I dont know if SASS/CAS is doing it, or the economy, or just a new found desire to build something, but there are lots of people at least trying to make their own stuff. Make patterns, they will come....
DM

[/quote]

i'm with dalton, we need more pattern makers

GunClick Rick · January 03, 2011, 11:42:02 PM

Now here is a pattern you all will like.Notice the bueatiful skrting and attention to detail.From the original KT Ranch made by the orginal leather artist KT Morin 18??

Scout53 · January 04, 2011, 04:59:00 AM

Thank you all for your replies to my questions.
Tandy does carry Will Ghomley patterns. They are sold under a "title" of Old West Collection. There are several different pattern types in the holster category and 1 for "gun belts".
I am thinking of making a belt first and then progressing on to making holsters.
I suppose that the patterns will give some information about what weight of leather to use for a "lined" or "unlined" belts and holsters. Is this correct? I do have some supplies needed like needles and linen thread in heavy and light weight. I need to make a new awl but I should have the making's to get that completed without a problem.
Again, thank you for your help.
Scout53

outrider · January 04, 2011, 07:05:21 AM

Scout,

irst of all welcome to the forum. If you are interested in the pattern packs from Will Ghormley it would probably be best if you bought them directly from him. Tandy has discontinued alot of his pattern packs and there are a few new ones that Tandy has never handled. check out his website at ......... willghormley-maker.com

Cliff Fendley · January 04, 2011, 07:47:28 AM

I see Will Gormley has a Cheyenne pattern pack that look pretty authentic. I'd like to compare them to what I've come up with comparing to originals.

I noticed on his cartridge belts he has that extra loop for the main part of the belt to slide in. Did any of the 19th century ones have that because I haven't seen them on any? I thought that first turned up on Hollywood rigs.

will ghormley · January 07, 2011, 05:22:54 PM

Hey Cliff,

I have never found a belt keeper on a belt dated before 1904. That doesn't mean they weren't made, just that I've never seen a photo or sample of one. They were probably the exception rather than the rule. However, in saddles, I've seen the most uncomfortable saddles are the ones that didn't get used to death. So, in the case of saddles, the poorly made ones were the ones to survive in larger numbers, because they weren't ridden to pieces like the good ones.

In many of the old photos, you will see the belt hangs at an odd angle at the buckle, sometimes with the end of the belt hangin' down. Since I got my start in the leather business makin' belts for modern shooters, and they didn't like their belts hangin' down, that's what I mostly made for 'em. When I started makin' patterns, I just made what folks want. If you wanted to best represent what was common in the old west, leave off the keeper and let the belt hang at an odd angle.

All of my patterns are authentic. You may not want to reproduce the gear they represent, but that has nothin' to do with authenticity. There were other ways of makin' the same thing. I just didn't make patterns for 'em that way.

The great thing about a pattern is, you can use it as a startin' point and make it your own by addin' or takin' away aspects of it. I rarely use my own patterns when I'm makin' somethin' for me. I copy something specific I've seen in a museum or in a book. But, a guy can't make a livin' makin' 457 different patterns. It takes me over a month to put together a pattern pack. It takes me years to earn that money back in sales. They only solution is to make a basic set of patterns and let folks modify 'em to suit themselves.

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · January 07, 2011, 06:01:03 PM

Howdy Will

With the keeper thing, I remember seeing old westerns where they used what looked to be authentic holsters and gun belts, the type before Hollywood did there thing on design, and with most all those old holsters and gun belts they seemed to lack the simple details that would have made there rigs much better in design, I know I know we try to copy the old as close as we can, but the lack of a keeper on the main body of the belt was bad design, in my book anyway, the keeper helps to stabilize both chaff and billet side as they are joined together making the Ranger style belt solid and comfortable to wear, some of those rigs looked pretty loose and sloppy on, and they couldn't have been fun to wear, but as you said there aren't many to see of the old gun belts left to look at that had keepers, it could be that the keepers on a lot of these old belts just got wore out and feel off, heck I've had that happen to some of my old belts, and trying to wear a belt without a keeper doesn't work for me, especially when it is such an easy fix. I just want you to know I really appreciate all your pattern packs, and own most of them, you have done us all a great service my making them, it was a big help for me when getting started and I still refer to your patterns even today, so thanks for adding the keeper pard, and like you say, once you have the basics, you can go and do your own thing, which a lot of us have done.

tEN wOLVES

Cliff Fendley · January 08, 2011, 10:31:55 AM

Thanks for the info Will,

I never put the keeper on a belt unless someone asks for it as I've never seen a picture or one in the 19th century either. I don't notice my own belts hanging weird without it anyway once you position it.

I agree and said before, having patterns that you know works makes the process of making or modifying it much easier. Now that I have several of my own that I know work I can trace it and modify from there or at least use the size to make sure the new one I'm making will work the first go around. I spent a lot of time making my first patterns but just today a made up a new one for a special order in just a few minutes by combining features and sizes of three of my other patterns.

I would recommend anyone just starting to buy some patterns even if you don't plan to make that exact one. Just to make sure your sizing is right in the important areas can save you more in time and materials than the patterns will cost. I got lucky and never made a holster that didn't work but still could have saved myself a lot of time if I had some patterns to look at.

Scout53 · January 13, 2011, 05:56:12 PM

Thank you for all the advise and help. I know there will be more questions when I get started on this project and I believe that the answers will be found here if I just ask.
Thanks.
Scout53

Branding Iron Bill · January 21, 2011, 03:46:19 AM

Here's a nice one

Finished product. Not made by me, BTW

This is the original TR from the Gene Autry Museum. A little more finess on the carving obviously.

One more. Main and Winchester pattern. Love these old patterns.