Remanants of the Civil War

[Col.Will B.Havoc]

I was just reading some posts under bad guys. Various comments on both sides of the civil war and I saw some really childish, antagonistic comments. Grow up guys. We are all one country now. Although all of my ancestors were Federals, I can readily see and understand the States Rights arguments, which was what the war was really about. Especially with the excesses of the Obama administration, the Southerners may have been right. But right or wrong, the Confederacy went out of existance a long time ago and Sons of the North and Sons of the South have fought or are fighting seven major conflicts, side by side bleeding and dying or saving each others lives, not caring what state they were from!
Col.Will B. Havoc

[Delmonico]

I was just reading some posts under bad guys. Various comments on both sides of the civil war and I saw some really childish, antagonistic comments. Grow up guys. We are all one country now. Although all of my ancestors were Federals, I can readily see and understand the States Rights arguments, which was what the war was really about. Especially with the excesses of the Obama administration, the Southerners may have been right. But right or wrong, the Confederacy went out of existance a long time ago and Sons of the North and Sons of the South have fought or are fighting seven major conflicts, side by side bleeding and dying or saving each others lives, not caring what state they were from!
Col.Will B. Havoc

Well said, it always amazes me how many still want to fight this war that never should have been fought.

[Dead I]

Well said, it always amazes me how many still want to fight this war that never should have been fought.

Why, pray tell should it "not have been fought"? 

Colonel, we are not talking about how Americans stick together today.  We are talking about the history of the American Civil War, when they did not.  It is a relevant discussion, not for today, but to back then. We are indeed over that war, but it darn near destroyed our nation.  In addition our nation is divided again, this time not between slave and free states, but between liberals and conservatives.  It is important that we consider what happened in 1861 so that we make it so it doesn't happen again. 

The Civil War ended slavery and re-unified our nation.  Therefore it's causes were valid, terrible for sure; but valid nevertheless.

[Delmonico]

Why, pray tell should it "not have been fought"? 

Colonel, we are not talking about how Americans stick together today.  We are talking about the history of the American Civil War, when they did not.  It is a relevant discussion, not for today, but to back then. We are indeed over that war, but it darn near destroyed our nation.  In addition our nation is divided again, this time not between slave and free states, but between liberals and conservatives.  It is important that we consider what happened in 1861 so that we make it so it doesn't happen again. 

The Civil War ended slavery and re-unified our nation.  Therefore it's causes were valid, terrible for sure; but valid nevertheless.

First of all don't call me Colonel, second of all if the leaders of this country would have had any brains these issues could have been settled with out a war that in case you haven't noticed we are still paying for. 

I'm sure you've noticed that I consider neither side right, neither side wrong in that war.  I won't get into any detail here since this is not a forum to discuss modern political detail, but we would most likely not be in the mess with the Federal Government today if the war had not been fought.  Perhaps you are happy with the state of things today, but not everyone is. And I'm not the only one on this board that thinks that way, just more vocal than some.

[Major 2]

 
Remanants of the Civil War ?


To support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law in 1862. It was dropped, for a short while in 1872.... returned  in 1894-96 , and made law of the land by the 16th Amendment in 1913.

there is Remanant of the Civil War, for you !

[Mogorilla]

Unfortunately didn't end slavery either.  There are probably ~750,000 people living in slavery in this country alone, nearly 12 million world wide.

[Delmonico]

Remanants of the Civil War ?


To support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law in 1862. It was dropped, for a short while in 1872.... returned  in 1894-96 , and made law of the land by the 16th Amendment in 1913.

there is Remanant of the Civil War, for you !

Now Major, don't get too carried away, you know we want him to do some research on his own.  

[Delmonico]

Unfortunately didn't end slavery either.  There are probably ~750,000 people living in slavery in this country alone, nearly 12 million world wide.

Now it made it illegal in the states in rebellion, took a bit longer for the ones who were not.  That took till Dec 6th 1865.

[Dead I]

Was addressing Colonel Havoc and not Delmonico.  

To quote Shelby Foote, "the Civil War defined us".  Before it we were a nation of States.  One delcared himself a New Yorker, or a Georgian.  After the War we became Americans.  This strengthened our nation and eased divisions and therefore made us a stronger nation.

[Dead I]

Remanants of the Civil War ?


To support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law in 1862. It was dropped, for a short while in 1872.... returned  in 1894-96 , and made law of the land by the 16th Amendment in 1913.

there is Remanant of the Civil War, for you !

The tax you are alluding to was acutally called a "tax on profits" and not an income tax that would be levied against all individuals' salary, as it is today.  When you read about that tax it lists a tax on various items sold.  I have the original of the newspaper article that announces the tax.

[Dead I]

Unfortunately didn't end slavery either.  There are probably ~750,000 people living in slavery in this country alone, nearly 12 million world wide.

The Emancipation Proclimation freed slaves in the states in rebellion.  Slavery was not made illegal until after the war, but today institutionalized slavery within the bounds of the United States is no more.  Your number of 750,000 people living in slavery in this country is incorrect. No, one, by law can be a slave here.  You might be talking about sex slaves and the such.  That is illegal and if caught the people enslaving people like that are prosecuted. Legal slavery within the US is no more.

As for slavery abroad, yes indeed it is still common in many places; like Africa for instance.  But we don't have jurdiction over what happens in other countries. 

[Dead I]

Unfortunately didn't end slavery either.  There are probably ~750,000 people living in slavery in this country alone, nearly 12 million world wide.

To be specific, what 750,000 people are you alluding to?

[Dead I]

The Civil War was fought because the South succeded. They did so after writing a proclamation, that among other things, declared slavery as their right.  One can argue othewise, but without slavery there would have been no war.  Lincoln fought, not to end slavery, but to reunify the nation.  He never recognized the Confederacy as a legal government, and according to law, it wasn't. There is and was no process in the Constitution for a state to succede. 

Should the government been able to fix the problems without going to war?  Yes they could and should have, but they did not.  It is as simple as that.

So it's not an issue of whether or not the war should have been fought, but that is was fought and why?  Another question is whether or not the nation is better off with a Northern victory?  I believe it was, since after the war, slavery; a blight upon our nation, and re-unification made us stronger. 

[GunClick Rick]

The Civil War ended slavery and re-unified our nation.  Therefore it's causes were valid, terrible for sure; but valid nevertheless.


SORT OF LIKE BLOWIN UP TOWERS,PLANES AND THE PENTAGON SO WE CAN UNITE THE WORLD..

[Major 2]

The tax you are alluding to was acutally called a "tax on profits" and not an income tax that would be levied against all individuals' salary, as it is today.  When you read about that tax it lists a tax on various items sold.  I have the original of the newspaper article that announces the tax.

NO... the tax I'm alluding to is:  INCOME TAX


In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an "inheritance" tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history—more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911.

The Act of 1862 established the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The Commissioner was given the power to assess, levy, and collect taxes, and the right to enforce the tax laws through seizure of property and income and through prosecution. The powers and authority remain very much the same today.



https://ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets

[Delmonico]

What you fail to realize is that if the hard headed asses on both sides would have put some effort into fixing the problems, there would have been no war.  But to many on both sides in Congress had agendas of there own, not of the people who elected them, something common today.

I don't favor either side in this mess but do find it interesting how folks down south did raise a hissy fit when westen Virginia succeded from the Confederacy. 

NO... the tax I'm alluding to is:  INCOME TAX


In 1862, in order to support the Civil War effort, Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law. It was a forerunner of our modern income tax in that it was based on the principles of graduated, or progressive, taxation and of withholding income at the source. During the Civil War, a person earning from $600 to $10,000 per year paid tax at the rate of 3%. Those with incomes of more than $10,000 paid taxes at a higher rate. Additional sales and excise taxes were added, and an “inheritance” tax also made its debut. In 1866, internal revenue collections reached their highest point in the nation's 90-year history—more than $310 million, an amount not reached again until 1911.

The Act of 1862 established the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue. The Commissioner was given the power to assess, levy, and collect taxes, and the right to enforce the tax laws through seizure of property and income and through prosecution. The powers and authority remain very much the same today.



https://ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets

Thats the way I always read it.

[Dead I]

The Civil War ended slavery and re-unified our nation.  Therefore it's causes were valid, terrible for sure; but valid nevertheless.


SORT OF LIKE BLOWIN UP TOWERS,PLANES AND THE PENTAGON SO WE CAN UNITE THE WORLD..

Sorry, I have no idea what  you are talking about.  The victory of the Union that ended the CW had nothing to do with "uniting the World", or any such thing.  It re-established the statud quo with respect to the relationship between the Northen and Southern states, nothing more and nothing less.

[Dead I]

I have the original newspaper article that announces the "tax on profits".  I'll dig it out and quote from it.  It's a very old paper, obviously, but it is interesting and it was called a "tax on profit".  It's been a decade or so since I read the paper, but I don't recall a mention of "income tax".  Anyway, I'll look it up and we can discuss it.

[Dead I]

Del-co; while our leaders just prior to the Civil War may have been inept, so has congress for a very long time been so.  They did try to avoid war by passing the Missouri Compromise and it worked pretty well.  However, the nation did divide itself along Free and Slave states, just as we today have divided ourselves between Liberals and Conservatives.  The Free and Slave state divide eventually lead to Civil War. 

Do stupid leaders lead us to war or dedicated ones?  Many in the South fought because the North invaded.  The North invaded to remove what they declared the illegal governments in the South.  Many men in my family took part in the War.   Some died and some survived.  I do not think they were stupid to have fought, just as i don't think me and my pals were stupid for fighting in the Vietnam War. 

[Delmonico]

Del-co; while our leaders just prior to the Civil War may have been inept, so has congress for a very long time been so.  They did try to avoid war by passing the Missouri Compromise and it worked pretty well.  However, the nation did divide itself along Free and Slave states, just as we today have divided ourselves between Liberals and Conservatives.  The Free and Slave state divide eventually lead to Civil War. 

Do stupid leaders lead us to war or dedicated ones?  Many in the South fought because the North invaded.  The North invaded to remove what they declared the illegal governments in the South.  Many men in my family took part in the War.   Some died and some survived.  I do not think they were stupid to have fought, just as i don't think me and my pals were stupid for fighting in the Vietnam War. 

Well I'm glad you made that clear, I could have never figured it out on my own.

Would you have felt so good about it if you would have been fighting against part of your family like many did?