45 Cowboy Special

[Wills Point Pete]

 Fairshake, it wasn't just until the end of the Civil War that folks used muzzle loaders. The very first sixgun I had was a very elderly Colt's Navy. The first rifle-gun I owned was a .22, the next one was a forty-some caliber muzzle loader. My Grandpa on my Mama's side lent me those. When I was about fourteen he took 'em back because I had graduated to them ca'tridge guns. The cap 'n ball guns went to a younger cousin and from there???

It was well after WW1 when a lot of country folks finally gave up on muzzle loaders. It's kind of a shame that more folks didn't learn on the front stuffers. With those you really had to learn to hunt.

[Drayton Calhoun]

As I recall, the .44 Henry rimfire wasn't exactly a powerhouse and seems to me the .45 CS would come close to replicating it. Good stuff. I used to shoot .44 Mag hot loads all day long...thirty years ago. Now, well, I realize that reducing the charge doesn't make it a wimp, it just makes it more accurate and manageable and you can shoot it all day long.

[Dick Dastardly]

Actually, according to Walt Kirst, there was a 46 rimfire cartridge that the C45Spl nearly duplicates, but in central fire primer location.  As I recall, Walt tried to get the C45Spl accepted in NCOWS shooting, but they rejected it.

DD-DLoS

[pony express]

Actually, according to Walt Kirst, there was a 46 rimfire cartridge that the C45Spl nearly duplicates, but in central fire primer location.  As I recall, Walt tried to get the C45Spl accepted in NCOWS shooting, but they rejected it.

DD-DLoS

Maybe he should have just called it a ".46 Remington Centerfire" Who could have a problem with that?

[fourfingersofdeath]

Maybe he should have just called it a ".46 Remington Centerfire" Who could have a problem with that?

Dang! Yer took the words right outa my mouth!

I have about 2000 45Colt cases to use up first!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

4deadly digits said; "I have about 2000 45Colt cases to use up first!"

Use a small tubing cutter and a LEE case length cutter for the .45ACP to acquire make special cases.

Great way to save split neck cases, but anneal first

[Dead Dog Jack]

emulating the "fierce" big bore cartridges of the 1860s, namely the .450 Webley and .455 Webley Mark I.

For the testosterone junkie, a 268 grain .455 Webley bullet as cast from the fine RCBS mold, on top of a stoutly compressed load of quality powder will surely satisfy.  

Right on!! The first time I saw a pard using the Cowboy45Special, I did a double take and asked "hey, is that a Webley round?" Ah, what a wonderful round it is.......

Now, if we can only find someone who makes a cylinder in .455 Webley.......nirvana!!!!

[Springfield Slim]

They do make cylinders for .450 Webley, they are called 45 Colt cylinders.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

They do make cylinders for .450 Webley, they are called 45 Colt cylinders.

You have to consider the variety of rim thicknesses.  .455 Webley has a .035" rim.  Colt/Schofield/Special have a .055" rim.  The others I don't know as I never measured any.

[Dead Dog Jack]

Plus, don't forget, the 45 Colt has a rim diameter of .512" while the 455 Webley has a rim diameter of .535". That prevents one from using the 45 Colt cylinder, unless the ratchet is modified.

[Dick Dastardly]

FWIW, AJ did convert 45 Colt brass to C45Spl, much in the way already mentioned.  He soon tired of the exercise.  That's when he contacted Star Line and went way out on a limb with his own money and ordered 50,000 pieces of his brass.  He took the risk so that we could have this fine cartridge.

I predict that those attempting to convert 45 Colt brass to C45Spl brass will also tire of the exercise long before they re-manufacture enough to satisfy their SASS shooting needs.  When that happens, simply go to Adirondack Jack's web site at www.cowboy45special.com/ and buy the brass you want.  You won't be overcharged or disappointed by quality or service.  He's one of us.

DD-DLoS

[River City John]

Actually, according to Walt Kirst, there was a 46 rimfire cartridge that the C45Spl nearly duplicates, but in central fire primer location.  As I recall, Walt tried to get the C45Spl accepted in NCOWS shooting, but they rejected it.

DD-DLoS

It was rejected because it was a modern case produced as a nod to the modern shooting sport of CAS in order to reduce the load of the .45colt.

RCJ

[Cohagen]

Hello to the campfire,


There are some pretty good reasons for going to .45 Cowboy. 

Practice with my ROA's is a lot easier with the conversion cylinder and .45 cowboys.   As DD observed there seems to be less blowback with the .45 cowboy

There is one step eliminated in the loading process for SASS approved loads.....No filler.

Twice as many .45 cowboy brass can be cleaned at one time.

Loaded with DD bullits, the round in deadly accurate, may have something to do with reduced recoil and less flinch.

Feeding in 73's with the conversion is absolutely flawless.

Thanks AJ for this unique round, obviously I'm a big fan.

Cohagen

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I couldn't wait, and I already was set up to convert .45Colt to .455 Webley.  4deadlydigits also has a supply problem in OZ

In Canada Double Tap Sports in T.O. imports Starline cases and sometimes has stock. It seems they do;

http://www.doubletapsports.com/node/22

Marstar might have them?  Apparently not at this time;

http://www.marstar.ca/ammo-etc/new-brass.shtm

P.S;  Modified with links, Jan 3, 2011

[Cuts Crooked]

I always thought it was a darned shame that this round was viewed by NCOWS as a "gamer round". In truth it can be a fair approximation of the old webley round or even loaded to the ballstics of the Henry Flat.

But then NCOWS has tried to stay within the precepts of historical accuraccy in it's permitted cartridges, excepting for those like the .44 mag and .357/38 special that were about the only thing available for a while to most folks. I admire that , but I think they missed the boat by disallowing this round.

[Jefro]

I always thought it was a darned shame that this round was viewed by NCOWS as a "gamer round". In truth it can be a fair approximation of the old webley round or even loaded to the ballstics of the Henry Flat.

But then NCOWS has tried to stay within the precepts of historical accuraccy in it's permitted cartridges, excepting for those like the .44 mag and .357/38 special that were about the only thing available for a while to most folks. I admire that , but I think they missed the boat by disallowing this round.

I agree, ain't much different than the Schofield.

Jefro

[Montana Slim]

...and for those that need a bit lighter load, there is a 125 grain bullet available.

Regards,
Slim

[Springfield Slim]

That's why I said 450 Colt/Revolver/Adams, it has the same rim diameter as the 45 Colt. And it is a bit shorter than the 45CS. Still available from Fiocchi. I empty the cases by shooting them in my 45Colt SAA and then load them for use with BP in my Webley Mk 4.

[Adirondack Jack]

While it is true the C45S is close to the .46 Remington, it is also a very near dead ringer for a very obscure case called the .45 (not .450 or .455) Webley, which was made for use in Webley-Green and SAA revolvers for British foreign service troops (India).  I have an original factory .45 Webley here.  it is a .452 bullet of about 230 grains, exactly the same rim as .45 Colt, and is a hair shorter than the C45S (might be .050 IIRC).
 The Early .455 Webley mark I, aka Colt-Eley is also close, but the .455 uses the thinner Adams-based rim, meaning many modern .45 Colt revolvers will not have enough firing pin reach to fire them (I have shot em outta Rugers, using sewing thread wound around the cases to space the rims).

A really fun combination for the historical purist using a modern .45 Colt revolver to play "old Brit cartridge games" is a C45S case loaded with a .455 Webley mark I bullet (RCBS makes the mold, a long-ogive 268 grain HB bullet) sized to .452.  These are far from "gamer" loads, and will thump the heck outta steel, or most anything else, and are in fact stouter than standard .45 Colt Cowboy loads, and in terms of momentum, probably out-smack .45 Service loads.  I've run em out of Rugers at 800FPS or so, and they will rattle a 32" round plate right off the mount or knock the whole kaboodle over.  (I just shoot one or two for grins, mixed in with my 525 fps 125s    )


L-R:  125 HB bullet inverted, 250 RNFP, 160 RNFP, and 268 HB (webley Mark I bullet)

Note, the very long nose 268 grain bullet cannot be run out of .45 Colt or even .45 Schofield, as it is too long for the cylinder when so loaded.  The short case makes it possible.

[Adirondack Jack]

FWIW, AJ did convert 45 Colt brass to C45Spl, much in the way already mentioned.  He soon tired of the exercise.  That's when he contacted Star Line and went way out on a limb with his own money and ordered 50,000 pieces of his brass.  He took the risk so that we could have this fine cartridge.

I predict that those attempting to convert 45 Colt brass to C45Spl brass will also tire of the exercise long before they re-manufacture enough to satisfy their SASS shooting needs.  When that happens, simply go to Adirondack Jack's web site at www.cowboy45special.com/ and buy the brass you want.  You won't be overcharged or disappointed by quality or service.  He's one of us.

DD-DLoS

Thanks DD

FWIW I was just thinking last night of how scary it was ordering that first 50,000 pieces, using money borrowed from momma's car fund (she waited a year to get a replacement for her aging Taurus).  That fear soon passed, and today we've sold about 10 times that many, and get orders from new customers and repeat orders all the time......  We still aren't getting rich on em, but enjoy watching the cartridge take hold, and are pleased by the fun folks have with em.

For those wanting to make C45S out of .45 Colt, I will tell you exactly how to do it and what to look out for.  Get ya a good, powered case trimmer such as the Lyman Universal (I used the one ya power with a drill motor) and a suitable case reamer.  You will need to trim the cases back to .898 or so, then deburr the outsides, then ream the insides.  This is important, as straight-walled pistol cases are tapered on the inside, and yer cutting em down far enough that they end up way too thick to load properly.  Failure to ream the cases leads to a case that will size too small on the inside, then the expander will push HARD to get it big enough on the inside for a bullet, rendering it fat on the outside, which means the seat/crimp die will work it real hard, crushing the bullet in the process.  Expect the press to jolt and jar, making powder fling all over, etc.

So ya gotta cut em, debur, then ream em to size SYMETRICALLY (so ya don't have brass with a weak side that will split right away).  If properly reamed, you will still have a fairly abrupt shoulder below the bullet, which will be a weak point, leading to early case failure, but they will work for a while.  I did about 2000 of em over a LOT of long evenings, and shot em for 1 1/2 seasons before pulling the trigger on properly made, correctly drawn brass specifically designed to be what it is, a .45 Colt with the unwanted MIDDLE omitted, and the internal taper reconfigured for our needs.  That meant custom designed drawing punches to make the strongest possible case that would still accommodate a 250 rnfp bullet without bulging, and a special taper at the web to make the best use of the space-reducing properties.  It is near identical in internal volume to ACP, but strength-wise is more like .460 Rowland brass.  The owner of Starline worked with me on the design of the punches.
 But you sure can make yer own, kinda sorta, if ya wanna.