45 Cowboy Special

[StrawHat]

Even though this may have been introduced as a gamer alternative I am curious as to how much black powder can be loaded and still seat a bullet?  Anyone load it up to it's potential?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Thank you.

[Jefro]

I use 20gr (1.3cc) of Schuetzen fffg with 150gr Big Lube, works great. I'm sure it will hold a little more with a compression die. Good Luck

Jefro

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy StrawHat ,

You're no gamer with Cowboy 45 Special ammo.  It has the same internal volume as the "man stopper" 45 ACP used in the Colt 1911.  That makes it a very respectably powerful cartridge.

I also load it with 1.3cc of FFFg Holy Black under either J/P 45-200 or EPP-UG 150 grain Big Lube®LLC bullets.  It's my favorite ammo to use with my 1860 open tops with Kirst Konverter cylinders.  Shoots like a laser.  I shot clean at the Wisconsin State Championship match with it.

Happy shooting,

DD-DLoS

[Pettifogger]

Even though this may have been introduced as a gamer alternative I am curious as to how much black powder can be loaded and still seat a bullet?  Anyone load it up to it's potential?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Thank you.

Since you have already made up your mind that the round is "a gamer alternative," what's the point of responding?

[fourfingersofdeath]

Why would you go to 45Cal if you were a 'gamer?' Don't make a lick of sense as my old long since departed American friend used to say. Gamers use 38 Specials (some even use 32s) and only use Black when it is a Black Powder only shoot.

[Jefro]

Why would you go to 45Cal if you were a 'gamer?' Don't make a lick of sense as my old long since departed American friend used to say. Gamers use 38 Specials (some even use 32s) and only use Black when it is a Black Powder only shoot.

What's with all this gamer talk , nothing wrong with .38, 32/20 or C.45Sp. Everyone seems to think the Colt .45 was the big deal in the real west. Maybe for revlovers, but so was the historically accurate 32/20, it put alot more meat on the table than any .45. I've been shooting nothing but real BP with the 38sp Snakebites for years, loaded up with 3f it produces plenty of bang and smoke. When I do shoot .45 revolvers I use the C.45Sp, just as historically accurate as those .45 rifles. I ain't hunting elk does that make me a gamer I think not

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[StrawHat]

Since you have already made up your mind that the round is "a gamer alternative," what's the point of responding?...

And folks wonder why newcomers get turned off to the shooting sports?  I see sharing information is a concept foreign to you.  I have not made up my mind, I am looking for information so as to compare this round with others I currently load.

This is from the website of Adirondack Jack's Trading Post

" ...It also happens that by doing so, the case
capacity under a 250 grain bullet is cut by just about half, making it a dandy,
soft shooting round with smokeless powder, black powder, or subs in the
process.

Thus was born the Cowboy .45 Special.  Designed to reduce case capacity
available under the bullet by as much as 50%, this little beauty runs very
consistently and accurately with smokeless loads as light as 600 - 650  fps
with 200 grain bullets.  A current favorite recipe runs a 200 grainer at 650
fps with an extreme spread of SIX, even with progressively loaded ammo
and volumetrically dispensed charges (no hand weighing and single stage
loading to artificially tighten results).  A real sweet 520 fps load with 160
grainers is possible too!... "

From what he writes it seems that the load is indeed a powderpuff or is 500 or 600 fps a heavy load?  I do not shoot CAS or any competition anymore, I got tired of the gamers in all the disciplines.  My intent is to see what the potential is for the cartridge.  I understand the idea was to amke a 45 ACP length cartridge with a 45 long Colt rim.  Great idea, I just don't know what the capacity for the ACP is when using black powder. 

DD, thanks for the info.  I will have to translate cc into grains but I can do that.  I have my own thoughts as to what bullets I will use but again, thanks for the info.

[Lucky R. K.]

DD, thanks for the info.  I will have to translate cc into grains but I can do that.  I have my own thoughts as to what bullets I will use but again, thanks for the info.

You should be able to get 20 to 25 grains in the case depending on the powder and compression.

Lucky 

[Pettifogger]

And folks wonder why newcomers get turned off to the shooting sports?  I see sharing information is a concept foreign to you.  I have not made up my mind, I am looking for information so as to compare this round with others I currently load.

Your byline says active citizen, you didn't say you were new.  I share information all the time.  Problem is we get a lot of trolls that simply like to stir the pot on dead issues.  One of the biggest dead issues is when someone immediately starts calling some one else a gamer because they don't like .32s, .38s, short strokes,  or other equipment they don't like.  The .45 Cowboy Special is basically a .45 ACP with a .45 Long Colt rim.  Works fine and holds plenty of powder to make the smoke standard and has more than enough power for any knockdown you will run into.

P.S.  Whenever you post on the internet you can't have thin skin.  The written word often doesn't convey the same meaning as the spoken word as there is no voice intonation or inflection, no eye contact etc.

[will52100]

I'm a warthog, and wouldn't mind trying the 45 special out.  I've got a uberti remington with 5 1/2" barrel with a R&D conversion cylinder that would be just about perfect for this round.  Full power 45 black powder rounds are uncomfortable to shot in it.  My hands don't like the grip shape as well as the colt.

Of course, for the rifle I love the full power 45's, and even for my peacemakers.  But from what I understand the 45 special is very close to the orginal 46 Remington round used in there conversions.

On the other hand I've got enough ammo to reload for so have never tried it.  But it is an interesting concept, and I could see myself loading them with smokless do to the fact that most powders leave a lot of space in the 45LC.

[Adirondack Jack]

Though I am obviously not impartial, lemme chime in here.  Yes, the C45S was marketed by me as a softer shooting alternative.  I was however shooting a .45 Colt load of 777FFG and a 250 grainer.  From that standpoint, a load many complained was just too much, we went back to basics, emulating the "fierce" big bore cartridges of the 1860s, namely the .450 Webley and .455 Webley Mark I.

Using good powder and a bullet of 200 grains or more, the C45S is a worthy cartridge for ANY use short of big bears.  18 grains of Swiss 1/12 and a 200 will get yer attention, with plenty enough "poop".  For the testosterone junkie, a 268 grain .455 Webley bullet as cast from the fine RCBS mold, on top of a stoutly compressed load of quality powder will surely satisfy.  From wild to mild, this little guy can git-r-dun.
Happy Holidays from Cowboy45Special.com 

[Sgt.Jake]

Jack  Gee I remember,back about four, five years ago,this feller that we both know. He was shooting a Marlin with a chamber that was just a little less than ideal and Sloppy,too say the least. IIRC he was shooting 19.5 grs of Swiss 1 1/2,with a 200 gr. J/P over top of it. He had to pound out the swelled case out of the chamber, that reveled the less than ideal chamber and taught us that yes the case seals up in the chamber and Swiss powder yes even 1 1/2 can and will develop some pressure. I for the life of me can't remember what the crono numbers were on that round but they were impressive. If one doesn't want it to be a powder puff it won't be but you better have a chamber that is somewhere near spec.          Adios  Sgt. Jake

[StrawHat]

Thanks for the info.

Not trying to stir up a hornets nest, just looking for info.  I have been shooting longer than many but not as long as some.  The 45 ACP is a favorite of mine and the idea of the 45 CS looked intriguing until I read the ad hype on the originators website.  That's where I got the idea it was for gamers.  Knowing the potetial of the ACP cartridge with smokelss, I was wondering what it was with black powder as the ACP is one of the few cartridges I have not yet loaded with black powder and lead.  

I shoot a 44 Colt revolver and was hoping to compare the two, on paper prior to investing in new brass.  If my shop was heated instead of being below freezing, I would fill an ACP case and weigh the result.  Shaking fingers and a balance scale don't go together well.  Interesting that it compares to the 46 Remington.

The info on shooting the Webley bullet is interesting also.  I have a SAECO mold that cast a 238 grain full wadcutter.  With smokeless, it sure packs a wallop from my 25-2.  In the 45 CS it may be even more fun.

Thanks again.  More info is better.

[Adirondack Jack]

At the VT State shoot, I was running my "poof-tink" smokeless loads, 125s over 2.8 of BE, and on one stage they had a BIG buffalo target that probably weighs 50+ lbs.  So I dragged out a 268 grainer on top of 5 grains of BE, which is roughly equal to the same bullet and Swiss, put it in the right rotation so it'd be shot at the big target, and hammered that ole buff just a bit off center.  The target wobbled back and forth like it was gonna come off the stand, as I hollered, "take that you shaggy SOB".  Much good fun.....

[fourfingersofdeath]

What's with all this gamer talk , nothing wrong with .38, 32/20 or C.45Sp. Everyone seems to think the Colt .45 was the big deal in the real west. Maybe for revlovers, but so was the historically accurate 32/20, it put alot more meat on the table than any .45. I've been shooting nothing but real BP with the 38sp Snakebites for years, loaded up with 3f it produces plenty of bang and smoke. When I do shoot .45 revolvers I use the C.45Sp, just as historically accurate as those .45 rifles. I ain't hunting elk does that make me a gamer I think not

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

What I meany Jefro, was that if you were a gamer, you would not even give a 45 cal a moments consideration.

I was down at the shopping mall today and went into the Game shop to buy a computer game for my son. They all had T shirts which said, "Talk to the gamers this Christmas!" I thought of a few shooting friends immediately.

[Mason Stillwell]

Here's a twist. I love this cartridge as I can shoot my 45's with less powder than  a full sized case and save money. No filler just pure bp a good big lube boolit and to town we go. YE HAA

[Dick Dastardly]

Yer dead nuts on Mason.  This is a simple case to load for black powder shooting.  That's one thing that's missed about the C45Spl.  It will handle a compressed charge of bp under a good bullet, Big Lube of course, and need no filler.  Also, for reasons I don't quite understand, there is LESS blowback with Cowboy 45 Special ammo than when the same gun is shot with 45 Colt ammo.  Go figure.

DD-DLoS

[Mason Stillwell]

Right now I only use it for my pistol's and I use the 150 Gr big Lube Boolit that I cast either with my lube or PS.

Some day I will  buy the conversion for my rifle and shoot it in both. I am a true believer in this little cartridge.

I like the simple load up the case and seat the boolit and then head to the range.

Later Mason

[Jefro]

Right now I only use it for my pistol's and I use the 150 Gr big Lube Boolit that I cast either with my lube or PS.

Later Mason

Yep, the C.45Sp is a dandy little cartridge for the revolvers. I also use the EPP 150gr, holds a little more powder than the 200gr, both shoot great.

Jefro

[Fairshake]

As AJ stated and if you read the info on the web his intentions were to make a small 45 Colt round that fit into the gamer ranks better. Most rounds may be loaded up or down depending on your use of it. Jefro, You have shot this game long enough to know that they had no 45 Colt rifles because of the case design used at that time. Had the factories had access to cases with the dimensions of today's ammo you can bet the house they would have been made by all the big boys and we would have old 45 Colt rifles to buy. As far as game killed it is nothing but guess work by any one who refers to it. I would be willing to bet that the muzzle loading rifles and the Sharps rifles had a larger quota than any small cartridge rifle. Almost all stories of the westward movement had each family with a muzzle loading shotgun and rifle right after the WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION. These people were not armed with the 73's but older guns.