What are 4th generation Colts?

[St. George]

Actually - Colt used 'SA' as a suffix beginning in 1956 - the start of the Post-War Single Action Army Production, and the so-called 'Second Generation' revolvers.

That started with 0001SA.

In 1978, 'SA' became a prefix, at SA01001 - the so-called 'Third Generation' revolvers with the press-fit bushing.

Current production of the 'Third Generation' revolvers with the removeable cylinder pin bushing uses 'S' as the prefix and 'A' as the suffix.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[nichtmussolini]

St George and Old Doc , I`ve mixt the year, you are right, 1956 start 2. generation with 0001SA, 1978 reaching 99 999 SA
and starting with SA01001, in 1993  SA99 999 was reached, newstart with S01001A. SORRY!!!
Best wishes
Heinz

[River Jordan]

at what serial number did the removable bushing resume?

[Old Doc]

at what serial number did the removable bushing resume?

That is an excellent question. The answer , if anyone knows it, will probaly help date the quality control issues.

[Texas John Ringo]

From 31st Edition Blue Book of Gun Values
Revolvers: SAA, 3rd Generation: 1976-Current MFG.
  After a short break in production, Colt Firearms announced the resumption of full-scale production of the Single Action on Feb.4th, at the N.S.G.A. (National Sporting Goods Association) Bi-Centennial show in Chicago.
  The "New Model Colt single Action Army" or the "Colt Post War Single Action Army – New Model", as it was commonly referred to at the time, is known today as the "3rd Generation Colt Single Action Army". Minor changes include a modified, thin front sight contour, and a return of the cylinder pin bushing in late 2002, plus a few other " minor, modern manufacturing techniques that have not changed the appearance, feel, action, or performance of this historic handgun...." According to Colt's press release at the time.
  Production began with ser. No. 80,000SA, and reached 99,999SA in 1978, At this point, the SA suffix changed to a prefix beginning with SA01,001. Serialization reached SA99,999 during 1993, and began over, this time separating the letters SA , and starting with S02,0001A.
  Starting at approximately ser. No. S34,000A, Colt reintroduced the full length cylinder bushing which had been eliminated in 1976, making these current 3rd Generation single Actions essentially the same as 1st and 2nd Generation guns. The factory still refers to these as 3rd Generation however, and not 4th Generation as some collectors are now calling them

[Fox Creek Kid]

FWIW, I have been told by those who own & shoot them with real BP that there is no difference bewteen the shorter press fitted bushing & the removeable bushing in the 3rd Gen. SAA's if that is what some are wondering.

[River Jordan]

I have a 1977 vintage Colt SAAin 45 that as time went on began to develop a bit of end shake.
My gunsmith very easily replaced the pressed in bushing about 10 years ago and it runs great.

I have not seen the press in bushings available for sale lately so is endshake now corrected by a cylinder replacement?

For what its worth,  the Colt, and USFA are the only guns I know of that use a firing bin bushing.
This also was replaced in my Colt as the primers began to back out. My gunsmith simply shimmed beneath the bushing to correct the headspace.   Do the clones without firing pin bushings exhibit issues with headspace?

[St. George]

The QC issue can't be dated to a specific time, as Colt was both being sold to the UAW, and was replacing machinery that had lived past it's service life.

There was a 'learning curve' both by workers and with new machines - glitches did happen.

During the time when Colt was owned by the UAW, the workers that were building guns 'did' get better - their learning curve just took some time - so you can't say that there was a particular block of numbers to avoid, since pretty much all Colt Single Action Army revolvers were built by the Custom Shop - as were the Pythons, and were hand-built.

In addressing the press-in bushing - they're still widely avalible as a replacement part - as are the full-length bushings, so correcting end shake isn't much of an issue, gunsmithing-wise - nor is the replacement of a firing pin bushing.

I have no idea if clones have these things, nor do I know if they have issues beyond being clones.

Colt installed them in order for any problem to be easily corrected locally - rather than having to have the weapon returned to the factory or discarded.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Fox Creek Kid]

...For what its worth,  the Colt, and USFA are the only guns I know of that use a firing bin bushing.
This also was replaced in my Colt as the primers began to back out. My gunsmith simply shimmed beneath the bushing to correct the headspace.   Do the clones without firing pin bushings exhibit issues with headspace?

The Pietta SAA copies have a FP bushing, or "recoil" plate. No one else does. Yes, it can cause problems for some. I have two Uberti Open Tops that had to be "bushed" for recoil plates due to peening.

FWIW, S&W started this on their Russian models at the request of the Russians before the Colt SAA was invented. 

[Doc Sunrise]

To the original poster, there is no 4th Gen.

[rosinghania]

I am a bit confused because some call it 4th generation colt. Iv'e heard of Detective Special Fourth Generation. Could that be the same thing?

[Fox Creek Kid]

I am a bit confused because some call it 4th generation colt. Iv'e heard of Detective Special Fourth Generation. Could that be the same thing?

That is another entirely different gun and subject. There is no 4th Gen. Colt SAA. Period.

[customman]

I had the privilege of meeting Marty Huber a few years ago at a machine gun shoot held at the YO ranch in Kerville, TX. I had heard the term 4th generation a number of times from the so-called experts.  Those experts seemed to think that since Colt had started  putting the serial number between S and the A meant a new generation. Marty looked at me and said, "What idiot told you that. There is not such thing."  I figured, if Marty didn't know the difference, there wasn't anyone on earth who did.  Anyway I get a lot of pleasure out of my 3rd generation Colt's.

[Old Doc]

My question would be, do all SAA's come out of the Custom Shop ? They did a few years back.

[Pettifogger]

My question would be, do all SAA's come out of the Custom Shop ? They did a few years back.

Yes, which really means none are "custom."

[Graveyard Jack]

Folks are referring to the most recent production guns, perhaps the last 3-4yrs as "4th generation" because they are so vastly improved over previous 3rd generation guns. Colt's has finally begun to build a good SAA again. No more over-polishing, dished-out screw holes and bolt notches, rolled-over edges and "wallered-out" lettering.  You can thank USFA for that.

[Drydock]

I always find it curious about Colts reaction to the "4th Generation" nomenclature.  The whole "Generations" nomenclature was created by collectors, and Colt had nothing to do with it initialy.  That they now try to declare Generations is frankly silly.  Collectors will determine Generations with or without Colts approval.

The Collectors I know who use the 4th generation nomenclature date it to the move of Colt from the old armory to the current facility, in 1993-94.  This coincided with the Shift to the SxxxxA serial number (a happy coincidence) along with a marked increase in observed quality, possibly due to new machine tools.  This was considered a significant event in the SAA production timeline, and a convenient breakpoint from the often scattershot/on-off/ceremonial production so often typical of the so called 3rd generation weapons.

Is this a correct usage of the "Generations" nomenclature?  I don't know, but don't figure it makes much difference.  I'm not a collector, and it is they who will eventualy determine what defines a "generation".  I just shoot 'em.

[Graveyard Jack]

I never noticed a marked increase in quality until the last couple years. Certainly not in the `90's. I'm not a collector either but it matters to me. For the only 3rd generation Colt SAA I would even consider, unless it was an absolute steal, would be from the most recent production.

[Drydock]

I own 2, a fixed bushing 7.5" from 1997, and a removable bushing 5.5" from 2005.  Both are superb.  And have handled hundreds, thanks to some dedicated collectors and shooters who've blessed me with their friendship.

The recent years marked by the removable bushing have really impressed me, but I can see a dramatic difference from the 80s to the 90s.    To me, the 1993 move marked the beginning of a rennascance in Colt SAA manufacturing.  The SAAs produced in the decade prior to the move were damned awful.  ANY improvement would be marked! IMHO.  

Of course, this also coincided with the great surge of CAS, when SHOOTERs began demanding SAs that were actualy meant to shoot.  IF you read Colt Literature from the 70s and 80s, its clear Colt thought of this weapon as a presentation piece, never meant to be cycled, much less fired!  A heavily overpolished shiny piece to set on a mantle.  It took a long time for the Custom shop to get over that mindset.

[Hoof Hearted]

Just a quick note about cylinder thread pitch on Colt barrels (uberti and others also).

I frequently chase the threads on third gen bbls and install them in 1st and 2nds as well as in Uberti and ASM and Pietta (and the other direction also) and well it can all be "fitted" to work as they are extremely close in dimension.

HH