Black powder Measurement: by Weight or Volume

[Dick Dastardly]

Regardless of weights and measures, It's consistency that pays off at the firing line.  All this discussion is moot point if the loads you are making aren't as consistent as  you can make them.  So, weigh, measure or whatever, but do it the same every time.  Repeatability is an issue in achieving precision and accuracy.

Be it volume or mass, make it always the same according to your best results at the firing line and you will be a happy shooter.

DD-DLoS

[shieldsmt]

This is all real interesting, but I think all that matters is that you fill the case to wherever you are going to get the right compression and keep consistent.  I use a measure made out of an empty cartridge and don't really care what the actual weight is, always use GOEX or Schuetzen 3F in my 44WCF Win. brass.  A hot primer.  Accurate, they kill deer and antelope like no one's business...end of story, for me...

[Bryan Austin]

Regardless of weights and measures, It's consistency that pays off at the firing line.  All this discussion is moot point if the loads you are making aren't as consistent as  you can make them.  So, weigh, measure or whatever, but do it the same every time.  Repeatability is an issue in achieving precision and accuracy.

Be it volume or mass, make it always the same according to your best results at the firing line and you will be a happy shooter.

DD-DLoS

You are so correct but thats not what was asked.(edited...actually the OP never asked a question) Back when I was asking these similar questions, I simply just wanted to know the truth......not someones $$.02 for what was best for this or that. I noticed in my 44-40s the more power the less accurate but in my 45 Colt the more power the more accurate for my particular loads....which can change as we all know with the type projectile and powder used.

[Deadeye Dick]

CC,
I see the winery is just north of Eddyville. I used to drag race there when I was a kid. I haven't lived in Iowa for 38 years now. If you get out this way try the Oregon wines. None better. I'll concede to the Iowa corn.
http://www.kingestate.com/
Deadeye Dick

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

As far as ultra precision accuracy with Black Powder rifle loads are concerned, the serious BPCR shooter will probably recalculate his loads every time he opens up a new lot of powder, no matter what the brand or granulation. For my own CAS purposes, maintaining the same compression, regardless of powder brand or lot number, is good enough.

Black powder is hydroscopic, so the relative humidity can affect the grains weight of a charge of powder wether (sic) dumped from a powder thrower or a measure of some kind.

Powder should always be stored in the original container and it should be well sealed when stored. When reloading, the powder is not exposed to the atmosphere long enough that it will absorb a significant amount of moisture. As such, relative humidity should not be a concern.


Drams.

In the Avoirdupois system, there are 16 ounces in a pound. There are 16 drams in an ounce. There are also 7000 grains in a pound. So doing the math, one dram equals 27.34375 grains. Drams were sometimes used instead of grains when referring to Black Powder shotgun loads simply because it was a simpler number to deal with. A 2 3/4 dram shotgun load had about 75 grains of powder in it.

When shotgun loads transitioned to Smokeless powder, the Dram Equivalent was usually printed on the box. This referred to the amount of Smokeless powder in the shells that delivered the same velocity as the the Equivalent load of Black Powder. Standards were developed. For instance, the standard velocity of a a 2 3/4", 2 3/4 Dram Equivalent load of 1 1/8 ounce of shot was 1145 fps. More and more, Dram Equivalent statements seem to be disappearing from boxes of shotgun shells these days.

[Ranch 13]

 Cuts we picked up a good selection of wines at the Amana colonies this past Sept. Really looking forwards to the Christmas party so we can find out if the beer and wine we got there tastes as good as the samples we tried.

[Cuts Crooked]

Deadeye,

Back in the mid - 70s I ran a powder blue 69 Charger with a 383, Tarantula 360 degree intake, 750 Holly double pumper, Hookers, and a caravan motif on the sides called "Tramps And Thieves" at E-ville.........I grew up around there and actually lived in E-ville for a number of years. ( I started my career in law enforcement there) Sold the car to a guy who took it to Bama to run as a pro-stocker. Bought a 69 Roadrunner to replace it but I never raced the RR, a friend wrecked it for me and that was the last muscle car I ever owned. By the end of the 70s a guy couldn't compete with the big money backed outfits anymore anyway.

Ranch,

Amana has some excellent wines but they don' hold a candle to Tassel Ridge! Now if yer talkin' dessert wines...that's a whole 'nuther story!

[Deadeye Dick]

CC,
Never got into it that much. Raced by 69 Mustang fastback and my brother's 65 El Camino, 396, headers with a Chevron racing transmission. Enjoyed the track, only minus was that it was a 1/8th mile track.

Give those Oregon wines a try. Do they still make Grainbelt?

Deadeye Dick

[Judge Lead]

I know this is way off topic, but Cuts seems to have run the correct brand (from my point of view). I am envious of his modes of transport in the past. Even though I run a Toyota presently, my preference would be Chrysler/Dodge.

Now, back to the topic. I know the question asked and have never really been able to understand the method of volumetric weight, but I have to go with DD and Driftwood. If it works to your satisfaction, continue to use that particular method. I have set my press and measure up to throw a weight and use both a beam scale and/or a digital scale. They both indicate the same weight so I see no particular foul. They work for me and my dear wife (when she has to shoot black) and if we do our part, the targets ring on each shot.

That is the view from my side of the fence. YMMV

Regards

[Bryan Austin]

This is a great thread, lets get back on topic!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

This is a great thread, lets get back on topic!

WHY??

[Bryan Austin]

WHY??

Because drag racing has nothing to do with the cost of eggs. BTW why is gas pricing soring? 

[Deadeye Dick]

I figured the thread had kind a petered out. Sorry!
Deadeye Dick

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I figured the thread had kind a petered out. Sorry!
Deadeye Dick

I think it was kinda beat ta death!  More dramatic that way.

[Grapeshot]

I think it was kinda beat ta death!  More dramatic that way.

Mercy!  Mercy!!  Let it be a quick death, I can't stand pain!!!

[Bryan Austin]

Mercy!  Mercy!!  Let it be a quick death, I can't stand pain!!!

Thats the problem between mouse fart CAS, shooters and those that want to know the facts! 

[Grapeshot]

Thats the problem between mouse fart CAS, shooters and those that want to know the facts! 

Well, I don't know about that as my prefered load for CAS is 40 grains of Goex 2Fg and a 250 grain Big Lube PRS Boolit.  Considering how people back away from me and head for cover when I touch off my SAA's, you'd think that I was shooting an 8 inch Howitzer.  The concussion is enough to take your breath away.  So I quess my "Mouse" must be the size of a Triceratops.  LOL.

[Bryan Austin]

I figured that would get the topic open again 

[Jefro]

Thats the problem between mouse fart CAS, shooters and those that want to know the facts! 

Yea. it's a damn shame , all those folks getting togther whoopin' it up and having a good time, all playing within the rules. How dare they!!

As to the wieght-volume thingy, it's been beat to death here and at the Open Range more than once. It all boils down to what you shoot, SASS, BPCR, shilouette..etc...and what works for you. I'll stick to volume for SASS and what I need for the compression I'm looking for, about 1/8''......then try to repeat, rinse repeat. I'm tired of popcorn and beer, think I'll change to wine, would anyone like some cheese??

Jefro

[Bryan Austin]

Yea. it's a damn shame , all those folks getting togther whoopin' it up and having a good time, all playing within the rules. How dare they!!

As to the wieght-volume thingy, it's been beat to death here and at the Open Range more than once. It all boils down to what you shoot, SASS, BPCR, shilouette..etc...and what works for you. I'll stick to volume for SASS and what I need for the compression I'm looking for, about 1/8''......then try to repeat, rinse repeat. I'm tired of popcorn and beer, think I'll change to wine, would anyone like some cheese??

Jefro

hehehe now we all know there is no such things as mouse farts with black powder. Yes, in general, especially for mass production and speed, reloading by volume is the way to go. I use volume when reloading for cas, targets or whatever you call it. When I load for self defense, hunting, etc, I use weight with a certain compression to make what I am using as accurate as I can.....yeap...simply because I choose to do so.

What folks choose to do is one thing but what is fact is fact, what is original is original...everything else is just preference!  Does one really think a cowpuncher back in 1875, out on the trail, is gonna weigh a charge, compress a charge? As far as that goes, what about C&B users....a flask right...is that not volume? Heck, I don't remember what this topic was about anyway! But I guess the argument boils down to why weight or volume? Looks like John Boy posted those facts a few posts up about weight. Several old cartridges were dissected and found the powder was right on weight as well as compression referring to the type cartridge like 38-40, 44-40, 45-70. Maybe back in the days cartridges were somewhat new, powder density more reflected to a referenced charge. Maybe we may never know.