Are conversion cylinders safe/ok to use in Brass Frame Uberti Replicas?

[Doug.38PR]

Are conversion cylinders in brass frame Remington or Colt replicas  (such as: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=4060)  safe to shoot Winchester Cowboy Action loads?


Thanks

[Qball]

Not according to Kirst.

Caution:
Ammunition must be loaded with lead bullets and a low-pressure, powder charge that DOES NOT EXCEED 1000 FEET PER SECOND VELOCITY!
NOT FOR USE IN BRASS FRAME REVOLVERS!
.44 and .45 caliber cylinders must NEVER BE INSTALLED IN A .36 CALIBER REVOLVER!

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/

[pony express]

I have seen brass frame Colt replicas converted to .38 S&W, but I have no idea how well it would hold up.

[Flint]

You might get away with light loads in a Remington brass frame, but the Colt type arbor threaded into brass cannot take the extra stress of a faster, heavier and usually harder bullet hitting the forcing cone, and thereby trying to pull the barrel off the gun.  This is trying to pull the arbor out of the frame, and deforms the threads.

chamber pressure is not the problem, as the conversion cylinder is rated for smokeless, but the brass frame can't take the recoil and bullet swaging.

[Hoof Hearted]

You might get away with light loads in a Remington brass frame, but the Colt type arbor threaded into brass cannot take the extra stress of a faster, heavier and usually harder bullet hitting the forcing cone, and thereby trying to pull the barrel off the gun.  This is trying to pull the arbor out of the frame, and deforms the threads.

chamber pressure is not the problem, as the conversion cylinder is rated for smokeless, but the brass frame can't take the recoil and bullet swaging.

Therefore you should be able to use a conversion cylinder as long as you load bullets of weight equal to round balls and black powder.

Common sense tells us that the cartridge holds less black than the original percussion cylinder so all things are NOT equal as long as you THINK about what you are loading.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Whoof;  How many folks can exercise the same high degree of common sense and restraint that you can?  Those warnings are meant to deter Murphy and his "ilk", who are far too common.

[StrawHat]

Yep, about the time you think something is foolproff, along comes a better fool!

[Hoof Hearted]

Whoof;  How many folks can exercise the same high degree of common sense and restraint that you can?  Those warnings are meant to deter Murphy and his "ilk", who are far too common.

I spent the day with Raven and we had a discussion about this..........

The liability and the litigation that permeates our lives dictates warning statements.
If only common sense prevailed

[Dr. Bob]

Hoof Hearted,

As my EX-wife used to tell me, "You are entitled to your fantasies!"   

[Doug.38PR]

HEHHE< yeah I passed up the brass guns and got my uncle a http://www.uberti.com/firearms/images/1860_army_lg.jpg 1860 Uberti Army instead.   He inquired about a .45 long colt conversion cylinder.  He's interested in this gun.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

R&D specifically mentions in the printed information that comes with their cylinders not to use their conversion cylinders in brass framed revolvers. They don't mention what type of powder, they just say not to use them in brass framed revolvers. Period.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Therefore you should be able to use a conversion cylinder as long as you load bullets of weight equal to round balls and black powder.

That is incorrect. A round ball is only held in the chamber by a tiny amount of friction where the ball has a tiny cylindrical section that was formed when it was pressed into the chamber. A bullet is mechanically held in place in a cartridge by a crimp. A crimp has a much stronger hold on the bullet than friction does on a round ball because the crimp actually digs into the bullet. In addition, the bullet is also held by friction over a much greater surface area inside the case than the tiny surface on the round ball.

This means that in order get the bullet to move out of the cartridge, a higher pressure level must be reached than is necessary to get a round ball moving, even if the projectile weights and the powder charges are equal. This will in turn generate more backward thrust of recoil from the cartridge. It is this pounding of recoil that can damage the frame or components of a brass framed revolver.

And that is why the makers of cartridge conversion cylinders recommend against using them with brass framed percussion revolvers.

[Hoof Hearted]

And that is why the makers of cartridge conversion cylinders recommend against using them with brass framed percussion revolvers.

Driftwood I am speaking from experience.

I know FOR A FACT that liability concerns are the reason that Kirst "recommends" against using his cylinders in brass framed revolvers.

Please check your facts before professing your opinions.

[Bishop Creek]

My first cap 'n ball revolver was a brass framed .36 1851 Navy (maker unknown) which I bought new back in 1969. I fired that thing every weekend and after a couple of years the frame started stretching causing the cylinder to become loose. By that time I had to hold the cylinder back against the recoil shield with my left hand so that the hammer would strike the caps with enough force to fire them. As Driftwood mentioned above, this may be one of the reasons, aside from liability, that Kirst doesn't recommend conversion cylinders in brass framed pistols.