cutting barrels

[Will Penny]

I have 3 1872 open tops, was wondering if anybody out there has ever taken a hacksaw to a 7 1/2 inch barrel and cut it down to 5 1/2 inches...I have done it to Muzzle-loaders in the past...what about shooting them without a front site?  at such close range, and the size of the targets I feel maybe the front site isn't really necessary, understand here I'm not ever going to be in the running for fastest shooter even on a good day when nobody showed up. I like the looks of the 5 1/2 inch barrel but at $145 a pop, well you can see what I mean.

[Flint]

It's actually easier to do without the rear sight than the front, but you can try it point shooting and if it works, leave it unsighted.

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings My Dear Monsiuer Penny -

By all means have at it with your square, scribe,  and saw! I myself perform barrel-ectomies on a dull and regular basis, and due to my  impatience I generally shoot them before they are really complete.

One can certainly have a great deal of fun shooting them "sightless" ( but not blindly!) but I usually end up dove-tailing or silver-soldering a new front sight on later.

One trick I liked to use (prior to obtaining a lathe)  is to square up the crown using a piloted cutter. Whilst it sounds expensive, one can simply use a Large Lee Case Trimmer with the appropriate caliber "case gauge" as a pilot down the barrel. Wrap a bit of scotch tape on the pilot to protect the rifling. Turn slowly. It works surprisingly well.

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/casecon.html

yhs
prof marvel

[Will Penny]

Greetings My Dear Monsiuer Penny -

By all means have at it with your square, scribe,  and saw! I myself perform barrel-ectomies on a dull and regular basis, and due to my  impatience I generally shoot them before they are really complete.

One can certainly have a great deal of fun shooting them "sightless" ( but not blindly!) but I usually end up dove-tailing or silver-soldering a new front sight on later.

One trick I liked to use (prior to obtaining a lathe)  is to square up the crown using a piloted cutter. Whilst it sounds expensive, one can simply use a Large Lee Case Trimmer with the appropriate caliber "case gauge" as a pilot down the barrel. Wrap a bit of scotch tape on the pilot to protect the rifling. Turn slowly. It works surprisingly well.

http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/casecon.html

yhs
prof marvel

thank you for that answer and the idea of the  case trimmer, will have to give it a try..gunsmiths, around here,  don't seem to be interested in doing the job, I asked one to cut off my 1873 lever gun, he said he could not cut a new dovetail for the tube, his machine wasn't big enough, when I suggested he do it by hand you would have thought I slapped him. 

[Professor Marvel]

thank you for that answer and the idea of the  case trimmer,

I am happy to be the instigator of such happiness :-)

will have to give it a try..gunsmiths, around here,  don't seem to be interested in doing the job, I asked one to cut off my 1873 lever gun, he said he could not cut a new dovetail for the tube, his machine wasn't big enough, when I suggested he do it by hand you would have thought I slapped him. 

My Dear Will you should have! ( oops, did I say that out loud? ) It is but a few minutes work to safely clamp and level the barrel, then to take one's safe file and remove perhaps 1/16 inch of metal :-)  I highly recommend it to everyone, I find it a very soothing and zen-like process. One can practice on an sort of round stock, scraps of barrels, tubing , etc.

yhs
prof marvel

[Abilene]

Will, if you want a gunsmith to cut the barrel and/or a dovetail, no need to rely on local guys.  You can easily ship just the barrels (nice thing about OT's) for very little cost compared to shipping a gun.  The Prof's advice for cutting the barrel sounds pretty good, but I know I wouldn't be able to do a dovetail myself.

[Capt. Augustus]

I did a pair of Opentops.  Flint cut the dovetails for me for a good price and installed Remington front sights for me.  I cut the barrels using a technique I figured out in my muzzleloading days.  I use a miter box and shim the hacksaw blade so it will not twist.  Since the barrel is tapered I then used a tool from Brownells to square it up and crown the barrel.  I really don't use the rear sight except as a reference since it is so small, but I do use the front sight.

[StrawHat]

I have 3 1872 open tops, was wondering if anybody out there has ever taken a hacksaw to a 7 1/2 inch barrel and cut it down to 5 1/2 inches...I have done it to Muzzle-loaders in the past...what about shooting them without a front site?  at such close range, and the size of the targets I feel maybe the front site isn't really necessary, understand here I'm not ever going to be in the running for fastest shooter even on a good day when nobody showed up. I like the looks of the 5 1/2 inch barrel but at $145 a pop, well you can see what I mean.

I understand about the cost of a gunsmith!  Here's what I did.  It's not an 1872, nor is it 5 1/2" but it is an open top.  After truing the muzzle, I dovetailed the sight and filed it down as I sighted it.

[Coffinmaker]

Actually, cutting down an Open Top barrel is easier than it seems at first glance.  You do need a new, sharp hack saw and some patience.  I wrap the barrel where I want to maKE the cut with masking tape, mark the barrel all the way around and work my way around the barrel.  I never met a barrel that was too short.  Most of my open top guns started with 7 1/2 inch barrels and are now cut to the ejector rod housing.  Works out to 4 7/16.  Balance is very very nice.  After you cut the barrel, square it up with a new sharp bastard file and polish out the tool marks from the saw, then lightly crown the inside of the barrel with a countersink.  Notice the "lightly" crown.  You just want to remove enough to eliminate any burrs at the cut.

Coffinmaker

PS:  Brownells sells some really nice dovetail files.  Thats a different chapter however.

[Will Penny]

Actually, cutting down an Open Top barrel is easier than it seems at first glance.  You do need a new, sharp hack saw and some patience.  I wrap the barrel where I want to maKE the cut with masking tape, mark the barrel all the way around and work my way around the barrel.  I never met a barrel that was too short.  Most of my open top guns started with 7 1/2 inch barrels and are now cut to the ejector rod housing.  Works out to 4 7/16.  Balance is very very nice.  After you cut the barrel, square it up with a new sharp bastard file and polish out the tool marks from the saw, then lightly crown the inside of the barrel with a countersink.  Notice the "lightly" crown.  You just want to remove enough to eliminate any burrs at the cut.

Coffinmaker

PS:  Brownells sells some really nice dovetail files.  Thats a different chapter however.

thank you, thank you one and all, i do believe I can have at them after Xmas, thanks for all the information...will do one and see how that comes out, after that if good, I'll go for all three..

[Claypipe]

Here's what I have done it the past to shorten open top colt type barrels.

1.) Strip the barrel of the loading lever, wedge and wedge screw.  Then I decide exactly where I want to cut the barrel at.

2.) Using a wide width of masking tape, I wrap the barrel with two layers.

3.) Next, using a medium size pipe cutter, I make three or four turns at the predetermined point that I want to shorten the barrel to. ONLY THREE OR FOUR TURNS. This is to ensure that you cut the barrel square.

4.) Clamp the barrel in a vise using padded jaws, I prefer saddle leather over popular wood. Using a new hacksaw blade with 32 teeth per inch, slowly proceed to shorten the barrel. Remeber haste makes waste.

5.) With the barrel shortened, you can now dress up the new muzzle. I prefer to use a short piece of 1/2" thick popular board and using a Forstner bit drill a hole that will snugly fit around the muzzle. This will help to keep it square as you remove the hacksaw marks and polish it up. I tend to favor using a large knife two sided sharpening stone. Once the hacksaw cuts are dessed out, remove the wood and tape.

6.) For crowning the muzzle, I use a 1/2" abrasive ball grinder. Once I am satisfied with my work, I finish dress the muzzle with fine grit crocus cloth and finally polish it out with metal polish.

7.) Now, I give it a scalding hot bath with Dawn dishsoap, rinse it thoroughly to remove all the grit. I dry it with an old hand town, cold blue the muzzle several times, then lube the entire barrel with Borebutter.

For cutting dovetails for sights tape three new new hacksaw blades with 32 teeth per inch tightly together, leave about 5 inches of cutting surface exposed. Work slowly to get it right. You will also need a triangular flatsided swiss file to cut the end angles.

CP

[Claypipe]

And if I want a quick front sight, I use a nub of brass brazing rod. Using a drill press with the proper size drill bit, I drill a shallow hole and either silver solder, or using jb weld glue, it in place.

[Pettifogger]

thank you for that answer and the idea of the  case trimmer, will have to give it a try..gunsmiths, around here,  don't seem to be interested in doing the job, I asked one to cut off my 1873 lever gun, he said he could not cut a new dovetail for the tube, his machine wasn't big enough, when I suggested he do it by hand you would have thought I slapped him. 

The tube dovetail is harder to cut than a standard dovetail.  A standard dovetail is just a straight cut and you hammer in the sight or whatever you're installing.  The mag tube barrel hanger dovetail is curved on both ends and the hanger twists into it.  You can't cut the curved dovetail by hand, it pretty much has to be done on a milling machine.

[Paladin UK]

Fer crowning my shortened barrels I use a BRASS dome headed screw chucked in a variable speed hand drill.

Nice and easy does it every time!!!
Like I say this is how I do it, it is up to you what way you decide to do your own smokepoles 

Paladin ( What cant wait fer Santa ) UK

[Claypipe]

Claypipe
wouldn't a grinding wheel leave a rough finish? Would the brass like Paladin said leave a better finish? A picture would help.

I don't use a grinding wheel. I do use a 1/2 inch white grinding ball. Which I follow up with emery paper, chrome polish, then something like flitz or blue magic, till I get a mirror finish. Then I give the barrel a hot water bath with Dawn dish soap. Dry the whole affair with paper towels, touch up the muzzle with cold blue, wash it down again and rub it all down with Bore Butter.

I have heard of using brass screws with automotive valve grinding paste.

CP

[Will Penny]

I have 3 1872 open tops, was wondering if anybody out there has ever taken a hacksaw to a 7 1/2 inch barrel and cut it down to 5 1/2 inches...I have done it to Muzzle-loaders in the past...what about shooting them without a front site?  at such close range, and the size of the targets I feel maybe the front site isn't really necessary, understand here I'm not ever going to be in the running for fastest shooter even on a good day when nobody showed up. I like the looks of the 5 1/2 inch barrel but at $145 a pop, well you can see what I mean.

well, I bit the bullet and bought new 5 1/2 inch barrels and installed them myself, they test fired A-OK but have yet to use them in a match, in fact I have not shot a match all year due to medical problems and motorcycle trips, a new bike will do that to you..Thanks to all for your kind words and ideas, looking back I would not have been out of line to just cut them myself and did it all right in my basement, I built a few muzzle-loaders in my day so it should have been a snap for a old hacksaw, file,stone, backyard mechanic like me.. sometimes the fear of screwing up just puts fear in place where it should have not been..lets face it, if I screwed up all I would have had to do was buy a couple new barrels     

[Claypipe]

CP
Take a picture of that barrel end and post it here with your instructions.  I want to reshorten one and that sounds like a good way to do it.  I had one done for me and it looks lousy, I want to show him what it should look like. I'll give him your directions and a picture of yours.
Nueces

Sorry it took so long to post these. These are some pieces I did a some years ago. Now, before anyone swoons, these photos were taken with a time delayed shutter, and the balls in the cylinder are settin atop corn meal, NO POWDER, shells or Photographer were ever in danger of a discharge. Hammers down on empty chambers

This one was intentionally left a little rough, to look like a blacksmith job. Hadn't got to intalling a front site. Don't know if I have a photo of it with a front sight.  Light source was a curly florescent bulb, no flash.


This 10 gauge  shotgun barrel was shortened to 23 inches. See how the light is mirrored on the muzzle. Not sure why there's sparkles in the bore. Light source was a curly florescent bulb, no flash.

[Claypipe]

well, I bit the bullet and bought new 5 1/2 inch barrels and installed them myself, they test fired A-OK but have yet to use them in a match, in fact I have not shot a match all year due to medical problems and motorcycle trips, a new bike will do that to you..Thanks to all for your kind words and ideas, looking back I would not have been out of line to just cut them myself and did it all right in my basement, I built a few muzzle-loaders in my day so it should have been a snap for a old hacksaw, file,stone, backyard mechanic like me.. sometimes the fear of screwing up just puts fear in place where it should have not been..lets face it, if I screwed up all I would have had to do was buy a couple new barrels     

Well now you have 4 guns in two. Or, you can sell the extra set of barrels and recoup some of your money for the next project or gun buy. Maybe the person who buys them is looking to do this same modification to their shootin irons? There's no one way to do a thing.

CP

[Claypipe]

claypipe,
is that a fake pistol? I have never seen a cap and ball pistol with cylinder walls as thick as that. Who made it and what is the caliber? I have seen some nonfiring guns with fake balls loaded to look like that and where is the loader?
SM

It was a CVA brass frame .44 1860 Army  manufactured by Armi San Marco with .451 lead balls on top of 30 grains of cornmeal. Since it was a snubbie, the loading lever assembly was removed and retired to the gun box. To be used when the gun was to be loaded. Why the "L" would I post photos of a fake pistol?

CP

[Claypipe]

claypipe,
Because the gun looks funny and I can't imagine why someone would load a pistol full of cornmeal. Sounds a bit weird. I was thinking you might have one of those replicas that won't shoot. Why else would you fill it full of cornmeal? Those walls still look thick. Show a view sort of to the side I want to see that barrel cut to. I can't tell anything from the 2 pictures you posted.
SM

So you're basically calling me a liar? Is this where I get upset? What difference will a side view make? You'll just make another accusation. Play your game, Hondo. [ Angel and the Bad Man ] If you had asked nicely, maybe I would have.

I used cornmeal to seat the balls at the proper depth. And to insure that no accident could happen and damage my camera or the mirror behind it. A little thing called safety first.

CP