'73 Rebuild? (Updated)

Started by Mossyrock, December 05, 2010, 06:37:25 PM

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Mossyrock

Gents,

I have a chance to pick up a more-or-less complete '73 in need of a rebuild for less than $500.  It needs new wood, a barrel reline, hand polishing, recutting some markings, some minor part, pin and screw replacement, and a reblue/color case job.  I see this hitting the $1,200 mark real easy, but when all is said and done, it will be a REAL Winchester '73.  I can handle the wood, the polish, the rust blue, the nitre blue and the required parts replacement.  I have gunsmith's within driving distance who can handle the rest.

So, when all is said and done, will it be worth it?  It is currently a .44 WCF with a sewer pipe bore.  Depending upon the vintage (I haven't cross-referenced the serial number yet), it will either be relined to a .44 WCF or a .38.  What say you?  A viable project?  Any suggestions?
Mossyrock


"We thought about it for a long time... 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union."

Lone Watie

Old Top

Mossyrock,

I would not look at relineing the barrel untill you have shot it, mine looked the same way but after a month or two it looked a lot better and did not seem to affect the accuratcy at all.  Just my thoughts




Old Top
I only shoot to support my reloading habit.

Mossyrock

Quote from: Old Top on December 05, 2010, 06:52:31 PM
Mossyrock,

I would not look at relineing the barrel untill you have shot it, mine looked the same way but after a month or two it looked a lot better and did not seem to affect the accuratcy at all.  Just my thoughts

Old Top

Top,

While I haven't given this bore a good scrub, calling it a sewer pipe is a kindness.  If this rifle is rebuilt, a reline is not a even a question; it is a necessity.
Mossyrock


"We thought about it for a long time... 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union."

Lone Watie

Professor Marvel

Ah My Dear Mossyrock -

>So, when all is said and done, will it be worth it?  It is currently a .44 WCF with a sewer pipe bore. 
>Depending upon the vintage (I haven't cross-referenced the serial number yet), it will either be
>relined to a .44 WCF or a .38.  What say you?  A viable project?  Any suggestions?

What a wonderful project! I commend you and advise you contact this man,

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=f594afcefcb4f1baf631229d97e3a306&t=27349


aka Alphawolf45 for he is already doing it merely for fun, He seems to be a fine fellow and willing to assist anyone who asks.

yhs
prof marvel

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Pappy Myles

I second the motion on rebuild.  It is a great project.   When you're finished, you'll have the pride and pleasure knowing you have a Winchester, plus restoring an old gun back into service.

I have a 94, that was my great grand fathers.  made about '01  30 wcf.  By the time it finally filtered down to me 10 years ago, it had been used, abused, drilled and tapped for a scope, had a reciever mounted peep, cracked stock, bent magazine, and a bore that looked like an obstical course for small tanks.    It appraised at about $250.  So I decided to restore it just for the satisfaction. I took it all apart and spent about a week with a tooth brush, cleaner and rust remover scrubbiing a hundred years of West Texas Dust out of it.  Got new wood, magazine tube, springs, and a new barrel, but in 38-55.  Had it reblued and it shoot just fine.  Plus the satisfaction ok knowing some of the guns history is related to my own families.
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Mossyrock

Well, I "pulled the trigger" on this deal and am jumping in with both feet.  On further research, this is a Second Model Sporting Rifle in what appears to be .44 WCF.  It MIGHT be a .38 (doubtful), but the caliber markings have been polished off the carrier.  It looks to be pretty much complete, with the exception of the magazine tube retaining pin and a possible broken mainspring.  The mag tube is dented pretty badly, and will need to be replaced.  The mag tube plug is pretty ugly and might get replaced as well.  I know there are several sources out there for reproduction '73 parts, but it does bring up an interesting question....what parts, if any, are interchangable between the modern Uberti imports and a real Winchester '73?

When all is said and done, I intend to restore this back to a standard, blued receiver sporting rifle with color case hardened hammer and lever.  I should be able to do all of the finish work besides the color case work.
Mossyrock


"We thought about it for a long time... 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union."

Lone Watie

Fox Creek Kid

There are a few problems IMO with the deal.

No. 1. For the difference you are going to lay out to "make" a '73 you could buy a good shooter.

No. 2. You will never get your money back if you need to sell.

Just food for thought as the project will ''nickel & dime" you to death.  ;)

Mossyrock

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on December 07, 2010, 09:56:54 PM
There are a few problems IMO with the deal.

No. 1. For the difference you are going to lay out to "make" a '73 you could buy a good shooter.

No. 2. You will never get your money back if you need to sell.

Just food for thought as the project will ''nickel & dime" you to death.  ;)

Restoring a badly neglected classic firearm is alot like being a hot rod lover....you go into it KNOWING it is a losing proposition financially.  It's about the journey and the experience...not necessarily about the end result.
Mossyrock


"We thought about it for a long time... 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union."

Lone Watie

Pettifogger

"It MIGHT be a .38 (doubtful), but the caliber markings have been polished off the carrier."  If the serial number is below 150,000 they didn't have caliber markings since they only came in one caliber -- .44-40 --  before that serial number.

Coal Creek Griff

I hope you take lots of pictures as the project progresses.  Actually, since we're "neighbors" I wouldn't mind seeing it sometime.  Where is the gunsmith you're working with?
Manager, WT Ranch--Coal Creek Division

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Mossyrock

Quote from: Pettifogger on December 07, 2010, 10:48:39 PM
"It MIGHT be a .38 (doubtful), but the caliber markings have been polished off the carrier."  If the serial number is below 150,000 they didn't have caliber markings since they only came in one caliber -- .44-40 --  before that serial number.

Well, that answers that!  That was the serial number cut off point that was eluding me.  Was it still a five groove barrel at that point?  The serial number on mine is 72,XXX.
Mossyrock


"We thought about it for a long time... 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union."

Lone Watie

Mossyrock

Quote from: Coal Creek Griff on December 08, 2010, 12:20:33 AM
I hope you take lots of pictures as the project progresses.  Actually, since we're "neighbors" I wouldn't mind seeing it sometime.  Where is the gunsmith you're working with?

My plan is to document it every step of the way.  The gunsmith is John Taylor, who is also a member here.
Mossyrock


"We thought about it for a long time... 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union."

Lone Watie

Cemetery

Quote from: Mossyrock on December 07, 2010, 02:48:09 PM
what parts, if any, are interchangable between the modern Uberti imports and a real Winchester '73?

Not too many.  I'm sort of in the same boat.

Toggle links are different on the Uberti's.  Buffalo Arms has a guy who makes custom repro toggles. 

Repro mainsprings are too short.  If you go with them, you might need to find somebody who can stretch them out.

I think the lifter springs are different as well.

The mag tube follower and stainless steel mag tube spring from Pioneer Gun Works works great in my original 44.40.

Don't even try modern screws.  They're metric based, while Winchester's are based on inches.
God forgives, I don't........

Capt. Augustus

Back when I was seriously thinking about a project like this with a old 73, I found a lot of parts at Dixie Gun Works to fit a real 73.  In the end I came to my senses and sold the 73 and the parts I had accumulated and wnt on to other windmills.

Cemetery

Quote from: Capt. Augustus on December 16, 2010, 09:37:18 AM
Back when I was seriously thinking about a project like this with a old 73, I found a lot of parts at Dixie Gun Works to fit a real 73.  In the end I came to my senses and sold the 73 and the parts I had accumulated and wnt on to other windmills.

A few people told me that original '73s under a certain price point are simply parts guns, since parts can be hard to find. 
God forgives, I don't........

vintagearms

Id look for a correct servicable barrel or a reprodiction barrel, if your in it for $ 500.00 wood for 300.0 blue on you, case color 250-300 ( get the letter if it was a case color gun then by all means case it if it was blued maybe just blue it) 400 msc. you might break even. I can speak fritcho experience resotred/redone 73's that are not done by named shops are bitch to sell. You might be trading dollars but you will have a decent gun IMHO keep it asclose to original facotry configuration sites cal finish and barrel length for easiest resale chances. ( i'm doing a 76 and taking a few liberties to satisfy m own desires so even i dont follow my advice) good luck and enjoy
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Mossyrock

Thanks!  I took the '73 to John Taylor last week and made an interesting discovery....it had a 26" special order barrel rather than the standard 24" barrel!  I was originally going to rebarrel it, but John thinks it can be successfully relined and cleaned up.  It will be a couple of months before it is back in my hands.  In the mean time, I will concentrate on polishing the side plates and restoring and polishing the screws.  Some of the screws will need to welded up and recut, or replaced.  Frankly, since all screws are available at a reasonable price, they will probably get replaced.
Mossyrock


"We thought about it for a long time... 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union."

Lone Watie

Virginia Gentleman

I second that restoration is not about return on your investment, it is about restoring a piece of history that might otherwise disappear into the parts bin.  I have found many "orphans" that needed anything from a good cleaning to full restoration and the end result is the reward unto itself.  If I may add my 2 cents...when you get it back and restored and want to shoot it, consider using cartridges that are loaded with a low corrosive propellant such as Buckhorn that will keep the gun cleaner than if using regular black powder cartridges while not risking damage that smokeless power loads may pose.

llc

None of my weapons are for investment, I think I understand what Mossyoak is after.  I think he wants a piece of history that is also part of himself.  After years of wanting and waiting I finally made it back to where I started about 60 years ago.  An 1873 Winchester in 32-20.  Dad and Grandad taught me to hunt blacktail deer with one of them.  I was sure I would have to re-wood, line the barrel, change internal parts and so on but careful cleaning revealed all internal parts including the toggles were as new except for a bit of rust.  The bore cleaned to the point that the last 12" to the muzzle are very very good, the 8" before that have a little roughness and the 4" at the chamber is the only fairly heavy wear area.  The chamber itself turned out perfect.  So a bit of cleaning and inspection and my restoration was not needed.  Granted all the blue is gone from the receiver and side plates, The barrel has faint bluing and spots and dings but for a rifle made in 1893 it is just fine.    I loaded with Pyrodex and a 115gr Laser Cast..round holes basically hitting where I point.  Shooting off-hand I can do about a 10" group(??) at 125 yards so life is good..Only one issue though..my wife absolutely cannot stand the residual odor of Pyrodex so I have changed to 3gr of TrailBoss.  about 1000 fps with absolutely no sign of pressure.  I would like to find a more modern smokeless but the data I have found only tells me I am shooting a weak (?) rifle and their loads will probably destroy it. Does anyone know of some good loading data with smokeless?  Grandpa and I loaded the hell out of his but I have no idea what we used......I have a 1944 loading book but don't know that data is safe.  Some of the loads are 1800fps.  Anyone know of a load source?  llc

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