Can Stages Just Get To Complicated?

[Shotgun Franklin]

Over the past year the stages we shoot have gotten more and more complex. Often I spend more time trying to learn the scenario than I do shooting. It has reached the point where the object is to remember what to shoot next. Anyone else having this problem?

[Koyote]

 Recently I was in Florida and got to do a couple CAS monthly shoots.
I was surprised on how simple they made it.
Set up stages, explain the stage.. no real theme just simple props & well placed targets.
Shooter ready??? Ready...BEEP!!! Simple sweeps!!!
I wasn't pre-occupied with memorizing lines. Sure had fun and met some great people.
I think they put a lot of thought into the concept..which did not scare off the Newbie!!!
Just wanted to comment my 2 cnts...
KK

[Modoc]

I hate to say it, but......  at some clubs, yes.  they seem to like their steel CLOSE   <7 yds and big then go and say 1st Pistol is a nevada sweep, Rifle is a Lawrence Welk, second Pistol in a badger sweep and shotgun for 4 or a similar combination of multiple sweeps.  Not the most fun, especially for a family member who has short term memory issues

It seems to be better if the stage consists of only one type of sweep or a clinker (action, special bonus target, etc.).  A good story especially at an annual and well placed targets will make for a better stage.

Also, if you are going to have a line involved, it helps to have it printed out at the position that it is said.

Closer to being two bits than two cents

[Jefro]

I don't see this very often anymore, I think most MD have a purty good handle on things. A few years back we had a couple stage writers that thought it was thier job to make us think, we don't let them write stages anymore.

Jefro

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Yup, when the stages are too complicated I just ask for my procedural up front.

Consistency is what makes for good stages. If you do a Nevada sweep from the left with the rifle, then do a Nevada sweep from the left with the pistols too. I hate it when they feel the need to mix various types of sweeps in one stage, that is a procedural nightmare.

By all means, have lots of targets, and have lots of movement. But keep the shooting consistent through out the stage. Don't make us shoot at one bunch of targets in one order, then completely change what we have to do for the next bunch of targets and the next. If I get too much of that kind of stuff, I don't show up again. CAS should be fun, it should not be a puzzle.

[Adirondack Jack]

Howdy

Yup, when the stages are too complicated I just ask for my procedural up front.

Consistency is what makes for good stages. If you do a Nevada sweep from the left with the rifle, then do a Nevada sweep from the left with the pistols too. I hate it when they feel the need to mix various types of sweeps in one stage, that is a procedural nightmare.

By all means, have lots of targets, and have lots of movement. But keep the shooting consistent through out the stage. Don't make us shoot at one bunch of targets in one order, then completely change what we have to do for the next bunch of targets and the next. If I get too much of that kind of stuff, I don't show up again. CAS should be fun, it should not be a puzzle.

+1  Folks will vote with their feet.  Stage writing is (thankfully) a teachable skill, and those clubs blessed with "travelling" shooters who also write stages will end up with a lotta good stuff and few "stinkers" because the writers see lots of stuff and learn what will work by the experiences of other places..........

[Major 2]

Howdy

Yup, when the stages are too complicated I just ask for my procedural up front.

Consistency is what makes for good stages. If you do a Nevada sweep from the left with the rifle, then do a Nevada sweep from the left with the pistols too. I hate it when they feel the need to mix various types of sweeps in one stage, that is a procedural nightmare.

By all means, have lots of targets, and have lots of movement. But keep the shooting consistent through out the stage. Don't make us shoot at one bunch of targets in one order, then completely change what we have to do for the next bunch of targets and the next. If I get too much of that kind of stuff, I don't show up again. CAS should be fun, it should not be a puzzle.

I tend to agree most adamantly.
In addition the kibitzing and other distractions tend to be annoying.
In Golf as an example , the gallery and players remain curiously quiet.

[August]

CAS is NOT target shooting.  CAS is NOT an intelligence test.  CAS is NOT a measure of short term memory.  CAS is NOT a Fu-fa-rah of picking stuff up and setting it down.

CAS is action shooting.  If it ain't like what could happen in a real gunfight, it ain't CAS.  If you shoot somebody that's fifteen yards away from you, you're gonna end up behind bars.

Our posse ain't comin' back to your shoot if you make your shoot something other than action shooting.

[Driftwood Johnson]

I tend to agree most adamantly.
In addition the kibitzing and other distractions tend to be annoying.
In Golf as an example , the gallery and players remain curiously quiet.

Uh oh. Ya better not show up anyplace me and Blackerby shoot Major. We don't believe in being quiet. This ain't golf. We especially believe in razzing our friends, particularly when they are on the firing line.

[Adirondack Jack]

Uh oh. Ya better not show up anyplace me and Blackerby shoot Major. We don't believe in being quiet. This ain't golf. We especially believe in razzing our friends, particularly when they are on the firing line.

Oh, the running commentary when a certain somebody in a sombrero came to the line was only outdone by IP shooting himself in the "junk" with a bounced round ball.  Yep, ya can have fun while shooting poorly.  We prove it every time......  And just who were 11, 12, and 13th place that year, BWAHHHHHAAAAAAA  Yep!

When I go to register, often as not Annabelle will ask "and what are you shooting this month?  "Poorly.  Oh, you mean category, oh...."

[Camille Eonich]

In addition the kibitzing and other distractions tend to be annoying.
In Golf as an example , the gallery and players remain curiously quiet.

Shoo...That's what makes cowboy shooting so much fun is all the razzing and stuff going on between shooters.  Of course you learn who likes is and who isn't bothered by it and you learn who to leave out of it.  Some times and places are more appropriate than others as well...

[panhead pete]

Rather than UP CLOSE and CONFUSING, I try to write stages that spread the targets out but keep the sequences and sweeps simple.  I think it is more fun AND challenging to deal with target acquisition than a confusing mix of sweeps.  Also, having the pistol targets farther apart equals things out a bit for the gunfighters and duelists.  My favorite sequence is two pistol targets spaced laterally apart 2-3 yards.  Begin on either side alternating with the last round on any rifle target!  (At our club, the rifle targets are 20-25 yards)  A miss does not count as a miss, a hit is a 10 second bonus.  The second pistol is alternating with all five rounds.  Simple, fun and a challenge!  We also have the lines printed so folks don't have to memorize them.  We are trying to keep the action AND fun in CAS.

Regards,

Panhead Pete

[Major 2]

DJ & Camille

You guys, may have missed my meaning or I most likely miss stated it.....

Good spirit razzing is fine and sometimes a shooter can use some coaching....

I was thinking at the loading table particularly and the unloading table perhaps just as importantly.....

I've seen the observer distracted by conversation, and the loader loaded 6 !
I've seen Shooters distracted, and load the wrong caliber jaming the gun...
I saw shooter miss the table with a loaded revolver,  she was called, to answer & looked away...dropped the piece
loaded and I believe got a match DQ...all because Hubby yelled, some thing or trivial BS

I'm suggesting, these areas should be distraction free.... I'll shut up now ! 

[Camille Eonich]

Major I agree.  The loading table time is my time to go over all my weapons and ammo and make sure that they are loaded properly and functioning correctly still.  Then I take the time to go over the stage in my head. 

A chatty loading table officer got me flustered at EoT one time and I put my pistol rounds on my rifle.  OAL of my pistol rounds is way too short for my rifle and it jammed costing me 9 misses.  That jam cost me a 3rd place finish in LT and I was 17th lady overall that year so just missed the shoot off too.  Unfortunately my fluster carried over tho the next stage as well...

Unloading table is not as bad but the officers need to be paying attention and chats slow things down so often you get to the unloading table and the last person is still there.  That's a problem if the unloading table is small.

[TomBullweed]

I enjoy the variety of types of stages.  Some clubs have up close and complex; some clubs have less complex and more accuracy.  Up close and simple does not make me a better shooter.  The Southeast Regional this year had many open stages where a shooter could make decisions about staging or sequence.  Great fun!

I have no qualms about asking someone to allow me to 'get in the groove' and get my game face on when I am at the loading table.  I have seen safety issues that led to match DQ's and shooters loose major time due to things done at the laoding table. 

I know of one shooter how has a plaque on his guncart (staged near the loading table) with ten steps that he goes over when loading (count shotgun shells, check rifle cartridges for problems, etc.). 

[gharrod]

I have encountered some of those "thinking" type stages at various shoots in the last coupla years and didn't like'em, even though I was able to get through most of them without any P's. If I wanted to think, I'd just stay home and do crossword puzzles. Just my .02 worth.

Grouchy Greg

[cpt dan blodgett]

You mean "P" traps.  If you need video tape, a note book and a dictionary to decifer the instructions, translate what ever local specificed progressive, double tap odd targets, sweep opposite direction double tapping even number targets with pistol.  Start in center alternating targets double tapping every other odd target with the rifle while standing on your head in a word -
YES

[wildman1]

Ya oughta try doin this when yer 66, can't remember as good as ya thought ya usta, and ya got ADHD, and yer main concern is yer tryin ta not shoot yerself in the foot, figuatively speaking, of course. KISS.  WM PS, and yer new at this sport. WM

[Camille Eonich]

Uh oh. Ya better not show up anyplace me and Blackerby shoot Major. We don't believe in being quiet. This ain't golf. We especially believe in razzing our friends, particularly when they are on the firing line.

And it's FUN!  You do learn who you can razz and who it disturbs though and who gets distracted easily and who doesn't.