Colt 1851 vs Uberti 1851

[Mossyrock]

I am on a quest for the best 1851 Navy that I can get.  To that end, I recently bought both an Uberti 1851 Navy (used) AND a Second Generation Colt 1851 (unfired).  I bought both to compare them.  That comparison yielded some interesting results.  First off, from a fit and finish perspective, the Colt wins, hands down.  Polish, blue, and color case are superior to the Uberti offering.  The Colt is also, thankfully, absent of proof marks.  Those have always bugged the heck out of me.  Why deface an otherwise beautiful revolver with a bunch of random stampings?  PUT THEM ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE BARREL, UNDER THE RAMMER!!!

The action on the Uberti is, at this point, smoother than the Colt.  Keep in mind that the Uberti was purchased used and has been fired and cycled more.  The full cock notch on the Uberti was undercut, and I ended up partially filling the full-cock notch with JB Weld.  Before I did that, the hammer actually cammed BACK when you pulled the trigger.  Internal finish are pretty equal: they are both rougher than I would like.  I had to lengthen the arbor on the Uberti, but the Colt was just the right length. 

The Uberti shoots very close to point of aim, while the Colt shoots about 8 inches high at 50'.  That will be corrected with a taller front sight.  Both were right on the money for windage.  Surprisingly, at 50', the Uberti is more accurate than the Colt.  This can be traced back to undersized chamber throats on the Colt compared to the Uberti.  I don't have the measurements handy, but the Colt was around .003" smaller than the Uberti, so the balls had to "slug up" in the bore.

From a practical perspective, considering cost, availability and accuracy (from my limited test sample), the advantage seems to fall to the Uberti.  Now, having said that, my goal is to turn the Colt into the "Ultimate 1851", with the best action job I can come up with, a brass gripframe with round trigger guard (personal preference), ivory grips and every trick and tip I can find to make it as good as it gets.  I will report back when I get more info to share.

[hellgate]

Thanks for the observations so far. You might want to try the LEE conical in the Uberti and see if it hits a little higher where the Colt strikes. Or, you can deepen the notch a bit on the Colt to essentially lower the rear sight if there is room to see the front sight over the barrel.
A question: do the 2nd gen Colts have gain twist rifling like the originals?

[Mossyrock]

A question: do the 2nd gen Colts have gain twist rifling like the originals?

I don't believe they do.  I'll have to check when I get home.

[Flint]

No, the 2nd gen Colts do not have the gain twist of the originals.

[Mossyrock]

No, the 2nd gen Colts do not have the gain twist of the originals.

What Flint said...   

[MJN77]

I have 2 Uberti 51 navies and both of them are deadly accurate up to 50 yards. I dearly love them both.

[Driftwood Johnson]

The full cock notch on the Uberti was undercut, and I ended up partially filling the full-cock notch with JB Weld.  Before I did that, the hammer actually cammed BACK when you pulled the trigger.

Howdy

The hammer is supposed to cam back a tiny amount when the trigger is pulled. It is a safety feature. With a slightly undercut full cock notch, the sear tends to nestle at the rear of the notch by mechanical wedging action. If the notch is not undercut, the only thing keeping the sear in the notch is the trigger spring. If the spring should break, the only thing preventing the gun from firing is a tiny bit of friction between the sear and the full cock notch. The worst situation of all is a negative amount of angle to the notch, in which case the natural mechanical wedging action attempts to shove the sear out of the notch against the trigger spring. In this case, with a broken trigger spring, the gun may fire if brought to full cock.

A tiny amount of undercut is normal, the hammer should cam back a very slight amount. If you have removed the undercut, you have removed a designed in safety feature and may have made the gun a bit more dangerous.

The reason proof marks are on the frame of a Colt style revolver is because the barrel may be removed and replaced by another. Then how would you know it had been proofed at all? All Italian made guns are required to be proofed in government run proof houses, so they all have proof marks. We have no such laws in this country. It is up to the manufacturer to decide whether or not they want to proof their guns. Most do, not all mark them with a proof mark.

It was eventually determined that gain twist rifling did not make the guns any more accurate, so it was done away with. I have never seen gain twist rifling in any modern made firearm. A friend has an original 1858 Remington that does have gain twist rifling.

[Pulp]

Driftwood, while I've never examined one for visual proof, the S&W .460 Magnum is rumored to have gain twist rifling.  At least I've read that in the gun mags.

[Pettifogger]

Actually this is more Uberti vs. Uberti than Uberti vs. Colt.  Uberti made most of the parts for the early second gens and all of the parts for the later models.  The fit and finish is nicer on the Colts, but internally they are certainly no smoother than an Italian assembled Uberti.  The current "London" model Uberti is as nice as any 51 made.

[Noz]

You are missing a bet by not looking at the Pietta. I is far better internally than the Ubertis from my experience. My Ubertis have been sold and replaced by Piettas.

[Flint]

The 2nd and 3rd gen Colts were assembled and finished in the USA, the 2nd gen by Iver Johnson and the 3rd gen by a Company formed for the purpose in Brooklyn, NY.

The proof marks must be on the frame to obey the Italian laws, unfortunately, there isn't a lot of available real estate there exposed to view if desired but normally out of sight.

The Colts, having been assembled in the USA required no proof marks.

[Mossyrock]

You are missing a bet by not looking at the Pietta. I is far better internally than the Ubertis from my experience. My Ubertis have been sold and replaced by Piettas.

I HAD two Piettas....They both had some serious timing issues and went back to the importer.  Also, I am not too fond of Pietta's take on the shape of the grip.

[Gatofeo]

The Colt reissue of its cap and ball revolvers in the 1970s through the early 1990s can be traced to Italy, but this doesn't make them purely Italian.
Dennis Adler's definitive book, "Colt Blackpowder Reproductions and Replicas: A Collector's and Shooter's Guide," briefly outlines the history (pages 25 and 26).
Colt decided to revive its 1851 Navy, and approached Val Forgett and Navy Arms. Forgett, who already had replica cap and ball revolvers made in Italy, oversaw the production of parts for Colt. These parts were shipped to the U.S. and finished by the Colt factory in Hartford, Conn.
All of the early 1851 Navy models produced in 1971 and 1972, the U.S. Grant and Robert E. Lee commemorative sets, and the early Dragoons were produced through Forgett.
As Colt added new models, the Blackpowder line was produced in Middlesex, N.J. Iver Johnson Arms and Lou Imperato were the sub-contractors.
The same process of finishing parts, that began in Italy was continued throughout the entire 2nd generation. The frames, center pins, nipples and screws for all the 2nd generation models were made in America, by Iver Johnson.
This question of "Spaghetti Colts" comes up frequently. Yet, I don't hear anyone mention "Teriyaki" Winchesters and Brownings.
I love my Colt, 2nd generation 1851 Navy, which I purchased new iin 1982. To me, it is a Colt and always will be.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I have 2nd Gen. '51 Navy that was a mess from the factory. I pumped a boatload of cash into it and made it a tack driver. 

The best replica I have seen is the rare USFA '51 Navy percussion and they made a mere handful. I have one & it is perfect is every regard. It is an Uberti, however it is finished to the nth degree. 

[Mossyrock]

I have 2nd Gen. '51 Navy that was a mess from the factory. I pumped a boatload of cash into it and made it a tack driver. 

The best replica I have seen is the rare USFA '51 Navy percussion and they made a mere handful. I have one & it is perfect is every regard. It is an Uberti, however it is finished to the nth degree. 

I call BS.  Nope...don't believe you.....unless you post pics....     I have wanted one of these for years, but have yet to lay eyes on one.

[Fox Creek Kid]

I call BS.  Nope...don't believe you.....unless you post pics....     I have wanted one of these for years, but have yet to lay eyes on one.

I will try this week to post photos of it AND my USFA '51 Navy conversion. Both are unfired NIB.   

[Major 2]

Here you go the USPFA (Uberti) 51 R&M conversion

[Mossyrock]

I will try this week to post photos of it AND my USFA '51 Navy conversion. Both are unfired NIB.   

UNFIRED?!?!?   Good God, man!!  What's WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?!?!?

[Fox Creek Kid]

UNFIRED?!?!?   Good God, man!!  What's WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?!?!?

I just bought them from an estate.

[Mossyrock]

I just bought them from an estate.

If you want to part with the '51, let me know.....