Black Powder Tactical Zombie Shoot

[Cemetery]

Recently went all cowboy'd up to a tactical zombie shoot with a shooting friend.  Didn't know what kind of reception we'd get, but they welcomed us, and everybody got a hoot out of us shootin' black out of our 1911's (45acp just to be clear), and Winchester '97's. 

Some folks never seen real black in action, and almost thought it was an myth from times of antiquity.  But we left 'em with big grins.  One guy asked for the recipe, and we could tell by the twinkle in some people's eyes who was gonna look into the dark arts.

Here's some photo's from the shoot with our 1911's belching smoke;

http://public.fotki.com/rexjbd/contagion-2010-larr/page7.html

password: Brainz

pages 7 and 8 have the black powder photos.

My Springfield GI 45 never had a hiccup feeding about 150 rounds or so.  I ran the slide, and it's innards dry, not sure if this helped or not.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks for posting this thread Cemetery.

I think we've been sold a bill of goods down thru time.  First of all, Winchester came out with their non corrosive primers and you could get them in Winchester factory ammo only.  Reloaders still had to use the old corrosive primers to hand load their black powder ammo.  So, black powder got a black eye because of the corrosive properties of the primers.

The original smokeless powders were available first in factory ammo loaded with "Staynless" primers.  The old Holy Black took a back seat again.  Then came bottle neck cartridges for heathen fad smokeyless powder.  Admittedly this stuff could shoot light bullets at higher velocities and it didn't give the shooter's position away, but it didn't put more venison on the table and it did a LOT more tissue damage.

Sliced bread, canned beer and tailor made cigarettes soon followed.  It was all a plot to sell us "factory made" products that we had been happily making for ourselves.  The trend continues, what with horseless carriages, motorized bicycles and flying machines that stay in the air without strings wires or mirrors.

I'm in the business of selling bullet molds for black powder shooting and I can tell you that the trend is back to our roots.  I see more grins and hear more excited cheers at SASS matches as time goes on.  Shooters are enjoying old time original cartridges in the way our forefathers did.  Welcome to yesterday.

DD-DLoS

[Doc Cuervo]

If it's all back to basics, how come ther are so many shooters using rifles with short stroke kits, and revolvers with modified sights, action jobs, quick draw holsters that never existed before 1955?
The 45 special, what the helll is that all about? What was wrong with the 45 schofield? How back to basics is all that?
Then folks are shooting guns that are no where reminisant of anything that ever existed before bill ruger dreamt them up.
Don't want to step on anyone's toes but it seems to me that there is a lot more departure from "the basics" going on than there is getting back to it.

[Cemetery]

If it's all back to basics, how come ther are so many shooters using rifles with short stroke kits, and revolvers with modified sights, action jobs, quick draw holsters that never existed before 1955?
The 45 special, what the helll is that all about? What was wrong with the 45 schofield? How back to basics is all that?
Then folks are shooting guns that are no where reminisant of anything that ever existed before bill ruger dreamt them up.
Don't want to step on anyone's toes but it seems to me that there is a lot more departure from "the basics" going on than there is getting back to it.

I think he meant going back to the basics by shooting black powder. 

[Short Knife Johnson]

The trend continues, what with horseless carriages, motorized bicycles and flying machines that stay in the air without strings wires or mirrors.

Flying machines that remain aloft sans the assist of strings wires or mirrors?!?  Is this a recent development?  I feel I have been denied critical, most needful information.  Dashed unsporting I say! 

I suppose now you'll inform us that we no longer have the need to select the viewing channels of our television boxes manually.  That some sort of "remote controller" device has become all the rage.

[Cuts Crooked]

Doc, ya gotta remember that some aspects of CAS are not about "what existed back in the day". SASS is a fantasy sport based mostly on the golden era of westerns from the Silver Screen.

If you are really into historical accuracy, you should look into NCOWS. That outfit is really into "the way it was".

BTW, the 45 Cowboy Special, with proper loads,  is about as close as one can find these days to the 44 Henry Flat. There simply isn't anything available that gets anywhere near the old Henry round.

Maybe some enterprizing soul could reproduce the Henry Flat in quantities that would make it feasable for us to have rimfire CAS gunz?

[Dick Dastardly]

Walt Kirst feels that there was a .46 caliber round that is very similar to the Cowboy 45 Special.  Actually mentioning the C45Spl round on this thread is fairly close to the mark since the case is basically that of a 45ACP with a 45 Colt head.  I use 45ACP dies with a 45 Colt shell holder to load my C45Spl ammo.  Works great.

Shortening 45 Colt to C45Spl length requires inside neck reaming.  It's a slow tedious process.  If inside neck reaming isn't done, the brass is too thick to load anything but a healed bullet and still chamber in 45 Colt chambers.

I think shooting Zombies with a 1911 45ACP stoked with Holy Black is a hoot.  I now have several pards loading their Wild Bunch pistolas with Big Lube®LLC bullets over black powder.  Their reports are very similar to those posted by Cemetery.

DD-DLoS

[w44wcf]

Cemetery,
NEAT! Thank you for the post.

..........The original smokeless powders were available first in factory ammo loaded with "Staynless" primers.  The old Holy Black took a back seat again............    
DD-DLoS

Howdy DD,
According to the early WInchester catalogs I have, the first smokeless powder cartridges appeared in late 1894. They found that the milder primers used in the b.p. cartridges were not strong enough to ignite smokeless powder reliably so they had to develop a hotter primer. Both types used fulminate of mercury as the priming compound.

Around 1915, Winchester eliminated the production of the milder b.p. primer and switched to using the smokeless primer for both their b.p. and smokeless cartridges. The priming compound was  still fulminate of mercury.

The switch to the NF (Non Fulminate) series of primers in 1920 is what ruined a lot of bores in both b.p. and smokeless rifles. THe NF series was considered CORROSIVE as they contained potassium chlorate as part of the priming compound. Bores that fired either b.p. or smokeless cartridges that were not properly cleaned would eventually be considered ruined.

In 1929 the Staynless series of primers were introduced which were non corrosive. THey were used in both b.p. and smokeless cartridges. Interestingly, Remington had introduced their "Kleandbore" primers 4 years earlier and had beaten Winchester to punch so to speak.

SIncerely,
w44wcf

[Kent Hitnuttin]

DD, I realize that this is an old post But,  I cut off 45lc brass to .45acp length, thats it no tapering.  I cut off a .45 lc seating die to the correct length.  Been loading .452 epp-ug blackpowder lubed lead with 22.5 grains Pyrodex RS, Winchester WLP primers.  No chambering problems, no splitting problems, no extracting problems (if'n I tilt the gun up, they'll fall out).  I even load .45 acp with same load, same .45lc modified die.  No chambering or extracting problems so far anyway.  Am I doin something wrong?  Kent

[Bottom Dealin Mike]

That looks like fun!!!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Shortening 45 Colt to C45Spl length requires inside neck reaming.  It's a slow tedious process.  If inside neck reaming isn't done, the brass is too thick to load anything but a healed bullet and still chamber in 45 Colt chambers.
DD-DLoS

I use .45 colt cases cut off to ACP length in my .45 New Vaquero with EPP UGG bullets.  Not reamed!

Same thing for .455 Webley Mk VI, but then I have to thin the rims