44/40 loads. Can't get it right.

[fourfingersofdeath]

Loaded up a small batch of BP loads, one load, ffg from a Lee 1.9cc with a 200Gn boolit and a card wad, one from a 2.2cc with a card wad, and one a 2.2 with just the boolit compressing the powder. I used a Lee Auto Disk with a double disk adaptor and loaded the rounds on a Lee Classic Turret ( I can't see how it is a Classic seeing it has only been on the marker for a few years, lol).

Rifle 1866 Uberti (very early model), revolvers, Pietta 1873 Armys.

1.9cc = Rifle preffered this load (mind you, the groups were more than twice the size of the TrailBoss loads). The revolvers hated it.

2.2cc = Rifle didn't like it, revolevers didn't mind it, but kicked like all get out and chopped up my big fingers.

2.2cc (no card) Rifle was about the same, didn't like it, revolvers really liked it but once again ripped my trigger finger up.

I really liek the concept of using one type of ammo on the line (SASS Shoots), but much as I like the Colt style revolvers, they really punish me. I did a shoot last year with healthy loads of TrailBoss and the feel was about the same and I hahad to shoot for most of the week with cuts and pieces out of my fingers and hands, which was not nice.

I think if I want to persist with warthog loads, I will have to dig out the Ruger VAqueros in 45Colt (bigger trigger guard)

[Blackpowder Burn]

I've got a Uberti 1873, an original 1892 Winchester and 2 USFA's in 44-40.  I shoot 32 grains by weight Goex FFg with a Mav Dutchman cast of 20:1 with Pearl Lube II.  All of the guns are very happy with it.  The revolvers do buck and roar, but have never damaged my hands, even shooting gunfighter.  Are you shooting two-handed or one-handed (duelist or gunfighter)?  Perhaps a one-handed hold would be better, as it would allow the revolver to recoil more freely and not be as likely to cause damage?

[Cherokee Bodie]

I've got a Uberti 1873, an original 1892 Winchester and 2 USFA's in 44-40.  I shoot 32 grains by weight Goex FFg with a Mav Dutchman cast of 20:1 with Pearl Lube II.  All of the guns are very happy with it.  The revolvers do buck and roar, but have never damaged my hands, even shooting gunfighter.  Are you shooting two-handed or one-handed (duelist or gunfighter)?  Perhaps a one-handed hold would be better, as it would allow the revolver to recoil more freely and not be as likely to cause damage?

pretty much the same as above. Three 73's, a 92, a Henry, all in 44/40. Load with Lee measure 2.2 which weights out about 32 Grain. bottom pour pot into 200 grain mold and lub with SPG. Not very fast so I compensate by making a lot of noise and smoke. Powder comes to about a 1/8th inch from the rim and compress with bullet. Goex 2F. FCDD.
Fairly heavy recoil which is what I like and have not had any phyicial type injurys to hands.
I have had, just this past weekend, i had a problem with cases getting a little balloned at the bottom making them hard to fit into the clylinder and I think it was because I load some with a 1.9 measure and there may have been a small air gap in the cases when loaded.
Cherokee Bodie
See Ya when the smoke clears

[Montana Slim]

I've got a Uberti 1873, an original 1892 Winchester and 2 USFA's in 44-40.  I shoot 32 grains by weight Goex FFg with a Mav Dutchman cast of 20:1 with Pearl Lube II.  All of the guns are very happy with it.  The revolvers do buck and roar, but have never damaged my hands, even shooting gunfighter.  Are you shooting two-handed or one-handed (duelist or gunfighter)?  Perhaps a one-handed hold would be better, as it would allow the revolver to recoil more freely and not be as likely to cause damage?

Simialr result here...I too shoot duelist...the leightweight 7 1/2" Colt flips up pretty good...is no use to try to fight it..that could cause a miss.

Regards,
Slim

[fourfingersofdeath]

The problem mainly is that there is barely enough room for my finger inside the trigger guards on the Colts and clones. I have to press my finger against the front of the trigger guard to prevent the gun going off when I release the hammer. I am shooting two handed as I have a shoulder injury (rotator cuff torn). I must start trying gunfighter (I don't think I 'm smart enough, I can run a prison, service my 4wd, design spreadsheets and do well at maths, but I think gunfighter will be a bit of a test ). That will spread the load over both hands. I have no trouble with hot loads in the Ruger Blackhawks and Vaqueros I have as there is a tiny bit more room.

Maybe get a 45ACP trim Die and trim some colt cases to Cowboy length and try those. If they work out I will import some 45 Cowboy cases. That will take me a couple of years

Back to the drawing board as they used to say.

[Dead Dog Jack]

I'm curious if there is any correlation between using a wad and recoil. I use 30 grains of Goex CTG in my .44-40 loads, while a friend uses 25 grains of 2F and a wad. His recoil was notably more powerful than mine.  It would be interesting to know the relation.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Fourfingers,

I load and shoot the Cowboy 45 Specials out of my 1860 open tops via Kirst Konverter cylinders.  They are about lite enough for those more fragile guns.  When I shoot C45Spl ammo in my ROAs I feel like a gamer because the guns are so robust.  BTW, I have big hands and full house Schofield loads in those same open tops are a bit much and the trigger guards do cut.

I do recommend the C45Spl ammo for lighter recoil.  In my guns it hits POA and is easier to manage in lighter pistols.  Your rifle won't feed them without modification.  See Adirondack Jack about that.

Good luck and happy shootin',

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

FFD;  I use a tiny tube cutter and a LEE .45 ACP trim unit to convert .45 Colt cases to .45 Spl.  Slow, but with a Ball handle for the cutter its not too bad.  Use the same process for .455 Webley MK I cases, with the additional rim thinning step.

[Trailrider]

Sounds to me like you should look at Outrider's 1875 Remmies over on the Cascity Remington thread.  They have more room behind the trigger guard, though I can't say about the size of the guards.  Otherwise, better haul out some OM Vaqueros.  I've got a pair in .44-40/.44 Magnum (had the second cylinder fitted to each gun).  But I shoot 8.0 gr. Universal behind 213 gr hardcast bullets.  MV is right up there at 950 ft/sec from the 7-1/2" tube, but even with medium-small hands, I don't have problems with recoil.

[Montana Slim]

Maybe get a 45ACP trim Die and trim some colt cases to Cowboy length and try those. If they work out I will import some 45 Cowboy cases. That will take me a couple of years

Back to the drawing board as they used to say.

I assume then that you have 45 Colt revolvers as well as the 44-40's discussed 

Regards,
Slim

[fourfingersofdeath]

I assume then that you have 45 Colt revolvers as well as the 44-40's discussed 

Regards,
Slim

yep, I said at one stage I will have to pull out the 45Colt Vaqueros because they have a larger trigger guard. Thanks for the head up.

As far as the trim dies go (Sir Charles Moulting Black I think mentioned them), I have used them a lot when I had oodles of 3006 brass and other times as well. They are hardened and if you run the case up into the die you can use a hacksaw to cut the case off in a few strokes, then clean up with a file and deburring tool while the case is still in the die. You won't hurt the die, afer all they are called a file trim die. harddddd as!

[Ranch 13]

 Sounding more like a bullet diameter problem. Probably need a larger diameter bullet, or softer alloy

Easy way to use a lee trimmer to shorten a bunch of cases is chuck the thing up in a drill press. set the depth gauge on your press and do the brass shavings boogy Little drop of cutting oil here and there seems to help things along.

[August]

I with you, OP.

I thing the WCF full goose loads are a real handful in the pistols.  What I've done is use Circle Fly wads to make a special load for the pistol.  This way, I can back the charge off in the pistols just enough to get a lighter recoiling load.  Circle Fly makes wads in a wide range of diameters.  These wads can be cut in half with a razor to produce a wad that's just the right size for taming the WCF down.

They work good in the rifle too.  The wad helps keep the gunz clean too.  But, the real benefit is having pistols you can hang onto for a whole match.

I'd probably shoot Wart Hog if every one else did.  But, so few do and I've never seen one at a big match.

[Blackpowder Burn]

We don't shoot Wart Hog with the One True Powder because other folks do - we do it because it's the mostest fun you can have! 

[Percussion Pete]

Blood and pain is part of being a Warthog. 



Or...dust off the Rugers.

[Yakima Red]

200 gr Lyman 427098 sized .428, 20-1 alloy. 2 F Load by volume Through a drop tube. Vegtable fiber wad over the powder. Do not compress the load, just set the bullet on the wad and lightly crimp so no edge. Pleasent to shoot, low recoil, feed excellent in the lever rifle.

[Fairshake]

Four fingers, I shoot any where from 33 grs of 2F or Cartridge to 35-36 grs of Swiss 2F from my Rodeo's. The 33 grn load of Swiss is one that both rifle and revolvers like. I have loaded the 44-40 with 33 grs of Goex Cartridge with almost the same results. The Goex has a little softer recoil than the Swiss. The 36 gr loads really have a hand full of wallop. The Colt's in 45 Schofield will give you a softer run or you can use about 21 grs of 2F with a wad and then top off the 44-40 cases with grits. If available in your parts if not use oats and give the horses some grazing food.

[Doc Cuervo]

Ooooh those big boomy loads are so scary and recoil so much, they are sooo hard to hold on to. I put two grains of black powder in with an eye droppe then fill the case with cream of wheat, cotton balls and little fluff bunnies. That way my tender little pinkies can hold the gun thingie through a whole match.

[fourfingersofdeath]

Thanks for the help. I love the warthog loads, sheetloads of smoke and flame, but I actually rip a piece out of my RH trigger finger near the first knuckle on about the third shot and no matter how hard you concentrate, the blood running everywhere and hurting like all get out doesn't do anything for the scores.

The finger is almost healed completely. I am off for a week on the motorcycle on Monday and I will work out some loads when I get back. I have a shoot at the end of this month.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Yes, a card will create more recoil because it becomes part of the projectile. Makes it as if you are shooting a slightly heavier bullet.

I can't help with the big finger in the trigger guard, but I learned a long time ago that the way to avoid having the knuckle of my middle finger whacked by the trigger guard in recoil was to leave about 1/4" of space between the trigger guard and my knuckle. I also figured out that the way to do this was to NOT try to cram my entire hand onto the grip. I keep my pinky curled beneath the grip. That allows me to hold a little bit lower on the grip freeing up a little bit of space between me and the trigger guard.

Yes, it is opposite to everything the Gunny told you about the 1911. But there is no way to get a finger behind the trigger guard on a 1911. With a single action revolver, gripping a little bit lower and keeping that magic 1/4" of space behind the trigger guard has completely eliminated 'knuckle whack' for me. And I ain't talking about no 200 grain 44-40 mousefart loads either, I'm talking about 250 grain bullets in front of a case full of FFg in a 45 Colt. With a little 4 5/8" barrel. Yes, there is more muzzle rise. No there is no more 'knuckle whack'. I can shoot my Colts this way all day long, with no 'knuckle whack'.

Another thought is the Remington 1875 or 1890 design. They have more space between the rear of the trigger guard and the grip.