Old West bad guys and bad guys

[Delmonico]

Instead of people continuing the conversation, I am met with sarcasm.

Perhaps it is because both of you are starting to look pretty silly and are the only ones who care to.

[MJN77]

Perhaps it is because both of you are starting to look pretty silly and are the only ones who care to.

Well , why are you posting here then? Do you have anything constructive to add to this thread or or are you just trying to pick a fight?

[MJN77]

All I see here is a couple of guys wanting to refight a war that both caused.  So have fun, I can see there is a lot of what happened that neither of you have much knowledge of. 

It's easy to say other people don't know anything, when you add nothing to the conversation yourself.

[Delmonico]

There is nothing to add till you guys really dig in beyond the popular ideas.

[MJN77]

There is nothing to add till you guys really dig in beyond the popular ideas.

Well, why don't you educate us then?
Is this all you have to do? Sit on your pedestal, looking down on us "stupid folk", shooting your mouth off about how much smarter you're supposed to be than everyone else, without actually adding to the conversation? You're a waste of time. If you have evidence to prove me wrong, please post it. Seriously. I like to learn things. After all, isn't that the point of these threads? But if all you want to do is post snide little insults, why bother to post at all? Why don't you put up or shut up. Untill then, this is my last response to you. Merry Christmas, buddy.

[Stillwater]

Well, why don't you educate us then?
Is this all you have to do? Sit on your pedestal, looking down on us "stupid folk", shooting your mouth off about how much smarter you're supposed to be than everyone else, without actually adding to the conversation? You're a waste of time. If you have evidence to prove me wrong, please post it. Seriously. I like to learn things. After all, isn't that the point of these threads? But if all you want to do is post snide little insults, why bother to post at all? Why don't you put up or shut up. Untill then, this is my last response to you. Merry Christmas, buddy.

Delmonico, MJN77 does make some valid points...!

If you see something that you think isn't right, post your facts, which other people (Those of whom are as good, and as knowledgable as you) can check out.

Prove your points, do away with the snide comments that you are so good at.

Bill

[MJN77]

Well fellas, this has been fun but I grew up a long time ago. Nowadays the only children I want to be around are my own. You two love birds have at it. As sadly amusing as it is, I just don't have the patients for too much B.S. If Dead I (or anyone else who acts older than a third grader) posts again I'll be back. At least he backs up his claims with some research. Merry Christmas everyone.

[Fox Creek Kid]

You know what the saddest part is about this thread? LEARN HOW TO SPELL!!!    For example, it's Fort SUMTER and not "Sumpter". 

[Dr. Bob]

The ACW started in the boarder area of Missouri/Kansas Territory in the 1850's.  Both sides used vicious tactics against civilian populations.  Calling names and stating generalities won't change anything, much less someones opinion.  I tire of the cacophony!     

[Delmonico]

The ACW started in the boarder area of Missouri/Kansas Territory in the 1850's.  Both sides used vicious tactics against civilian populations.  Calling names and stating generalities won't change anything, much less someones opinion.  I tire of the cacophony!     

Well said Dr Bob, anyone who tries to form one side as the good guy in that mess is trying to either blow smoke up one of your body orifices or has not really studied the mess. 

And to the two who tried to do just that for their chosen side and asked for documentation, I could but would not waste my time since the information is out there for anyone who really cares to put any effort in it.  Something your study of the affair seems to have not involved.

[Dead I]

It would appear that despite the protest, the War hasn't quite been laid to rest up North either.

No, the War has been put to rest.  The Union won.  The outcome was obvious when one looks at the democgraphics.  I think the Southerners thought the North would just give up after the shelling of Fort Sumner.   

BTW: There is a great new book on Libby Prison.  Another tale of the kindness against Northern prisoners.  There are no stories of horrors in Northern prisons like there are of mistreatment by the South.  None.  Didn't happen.  At least not on the scale that it happened in the South. One just cannot bend history that much.

Should the South have been allowed to suceed?  That's a good question.  Was the War fought over slavery, yes it was.  If there had been no slavery there would have been no war. 

[Stillwater]

<snip>

And to the two who tried to do just that for their chosen side and asked for documentation, I could but would not waste my time since the information is out there for anyone who really cares to put any effort in it.  Something your study of the affair seems to have not involved.

Which means you can't do it... Either you're a fake, or your unable to document anything properly... I think you're probably a fake...

Bill

[Stillwater]

No, the War has been put to rest.  The Union won.  The outcome was obvious when one looks at the democgraphics.  I think the Southerners thought the North would just give up after the shelling of Fort Sumner.  

BTW: There is a great new book on Libby Prison.  Another tale of the kindness against Northern prisoners.  There are no stories of horrors in Northern prisons like there are of mistreatment by the South.  None.  Didn't happen.  At least not on the scale that it happened in the South. One just cannot bend history that much.

Steve, I have read a couple of accounts of a Union POW prison located, I think in Illinois. It was close to being as bad as Andersonville.

Should the South have been allowed to suceed?  That's a good question. Was the War fought over slavery, yes it was. If there had been no slavery there would have been no war.  

And on the war being fought over slavery, the abolitionists would like to have everybody to think that. However, the Emancipation Proclamation, I think was a political effort to cast the Confederates in a bad light. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't come into existence until  9/22/1862, far after the start of the Civil War.

From what I have read, and studied in college history classes, the root cause of the Civil War, at least in northern minds, was the preservation of the Union. If the south would not have succeded from the Union, there would not have been a formal Civil War, in my mind.

I don't know how the Slavery question would have been addressed. My feeling is, is that it would have ended on it's own, sooner or later.

[Major 2]

 

BTW: There is a great new book on Libby Prison.  Another tale of the kindness against Northern prisoners.  There are no stories of horrors in Northern prisons like there are of mistreatment by the South.  None.  Didn't happen.  At least not on the scale that it happened in the South. One just cannot bend history that much.

Really ! you might want to read a bit further

Elmira , NY , Alton & Camp Douglas  Ill. , & Camp Chase, Ohio  just for starters

[MJN77]

And to the two who tried to do just that for their chosen side and asked for documentation, I could but would not waste my time since the information is out there for anyone who really cares to put any effort in it.

Blah blah blah........of course you could. For the second time I challenge you to "put up or shut up".
You build your self up but fail on the delivery. You're like a bad joke.

Major 2 is right. I mentioned camp Douglas before. Read about it. It was pretty bad. I wasn't taking up for the south so much as saying that the north wasn't "angelic" in their prison system either. You have to read about it with an unbiased mind. Neither side wore white hats.

[Stillwater]

Really ! you might want to read a bit further

Elmira , NY , Alton & Camp Douglas  Ill. , & Camp Chase, Ohio  just for starters

Thank you, Camp Douglas is the Pow Camp I was trying to think of.

http://www.east-buc.k12.ia.us/99_00/CW/tmj/tmj.htm

In the above article, it is pointed out that neither side holds the high ground when it comes to taking care of prisoners of war.

Bill

[River City John]

A major factor was that many captured were in expectation of being exchanged during the majority of the early war. When Grant stopped prisoner exchange as a tactic to deprive the South a source of manpower, and the South reciprocated in kind, and neither side was prepared to adequately provide permanent facilities nor care for the huge increase in prisoners.
This in a time when deaths by disease accounted for more casualties than actual battle.
Over crowding men together under poor living conditions with inadequate food and medical care, and the results were inevitable. During campaign season the soldier's diet was always somewhat iffy anyway, especially for the South.

RCJ

[Delmonico]

A major factor was that many captured were in expectation of being exchanged during the majority of the early war. When Grant stopped prisoner exchange as a tactic to deprive the South a source of manpower, and the South reciprocated in kind, and neither side was prepared to adequately provide permanent facilities nor care for the huge increase in prisoners.
This in a time when deaths by disease accounted for more casualties than actual battle.
Over crowding men together under poor living conditions with inadequate food and medical care, and the results were inevitable. During campaign season the soldier's diet was always somewhat iffy anyway, especially for the South.

RCJ

Also for those who have done some research as John has, you will find out the South's refusal to exchange black prisioners had a lot to do with things also.

[Stillwater]

Also for those who have done some research as John has, you will find out the South's refusal to exchange black prisioners had a lot to do with things also.

Show your research, prove your point...!

Bill

[FEATHERS]

I thought this thread was Old west Bad Guys??? Not I know more about the Civil War than you do.I suggest you look at your drivers licences & check your AGES.