Old West bad guys and bad guys

[Caprock Louis]

Enjoy so reading about our interpretations of characters of the past. ie West Hardin etc.

One unfair point with any of these colorful characters is we today can not truly understand the times of which they were raised.

We can not understand that indians were killed faster than wolves, folks shot one another especially in the back.

A few personal facts.  One of my great great grandmothers came from Germany.  Her life was so difficult she committed suicide.  My grandfather for some time ran 9 miles each morning and evening to work.  Not bragging just necessity to make a living around 1900.  The amount of work it took to clear land by hand was unbelievable to us today.  No wonder life expectancy was under 40.  Dying was a fact of life like we can not understand.  The winter brought puneunomia.  The theft of two milk cows could be the difference in life and death of a family.

Many of the pioneers still lived with the idea of honor which was so important in the south.  Many Southern offercers died in duels with one another in the War of Northern Aggression.  This extreme honor code did not occur in the north to that extent.  Still honor was restored in many a knife fight.  I today can not really understand such violence.  Still is was life in the 17-18th centuries.

We can not comprehend race in the past.  Hispanics suffered tremendous in the old west.  It was a result in growth of the anglo expansion.  The less settled hispanic reeled as a result.  I love Indian life and lore.  Yet one can see two totally different views of living.  The dominant one won.  Horrible as it was.  They speak of Indian slaughtering ok but do not research Sand Creek and what angolos did.  Totally incomprehensible yet to those men a fight well done. 

Being in Texas I am proud of the Texas Rangers.  Today there can be no finer group of Lawmen in the world.  Their deeds in the past were both beyond peer.  Still there is a reason why were called the Tejano devils.  Without cause our past has many shades of grey and yet makes us today unique.

The final thought is that for all the greatness of tue history today I am so proud to be a citizen of the most wonderful country ever seen.  To think we had the grace of God to have founders who with infinitate wisdom to create the Constiution of which we should abide today  makes me so proud to me aa American and with a bit of other pride even a Texas

Caprock Louis

Lost deep in the heart of Texas

[Deadeye Dick]

Caplock,
I take offense at your term "northern aggression".       BS
Deadeye Dick     

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Enjoy so reading about our interpretations of characters of the past. ie West Hardin etc.

One unfair point with any of these colorful characters is we today can not truly understand the times of which they were raised.

We can not understand that indians were killed faster than wolves, folks shot one another especially in the back.

A few personal facts.  One of my great great grandmothers came from Germany.  Her life was so difficult she committed suicide.  My grandfather for some time ran 9 miles each morning and evening to work.  Not bragging just necessity to make a living around 1900.  The amount of work it took to clear land by hand was unbelievable to us today.  No wonder life expectancy was under 40.  Dying was a fact of life like we can not understand.  The winter brought puneunomia.  The theft of two milk cows could be the difference in life and death of a family.

Many of the pioneers still lived with the idea of honor which was so important in the south.  Many Southern offercers died in duels with one another in the War of Northern Aggression.  This extreme honor code did not occur in the north to that extent.  Still honor was restored in many a knife fight.  I today can not really understand such violence.  Still is was life in the 17-18th centuries.

We can not comprehend race in the past.  Hispanics suffered tremendous in the old west.  It was a result in growth of the anglo expansion.  The less settled hispanic reeled as a result.  I love Indian life and lore.  Yet one can see two totally different views of living.  The dominant one won.  Horrible as it was.  They speak of Indian slaughtering ok but do not research Sand Creek and what angolos did.  Totally incomprehensible yet to those men a fight well done. 

Being in Texas I am proud of the Texas Rangers.  Today there can be no finer group of Lawmen in the world.  Their deeds in the past were both beyond peer.  Still there is a reason why were called the Tejano devils.  Without cause our past has many shades of grey and yet makes us today unique.

The final thought is that for all the greatness of tue history today I am so proud to be a citizen of the most wonderful country ever seen.  To think we had the grace of God to have founders who with infinitate wisdom to create the Constiution of which we should abide today  makes me so proud to me aa American and with a bit of other pride even a Texas

Caprock Louis

Lost deep in the heart of Texas

    Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed reading this, your thoughts are of mine.

                     Thanks for posting pard, I'd say you're one heck of a good American.


                                       Regards

                                  tEN wOLVES 

[GunClick Rick]

You should hang around Visalia for a few days.. The hospital is makin a killing these days..

[Caprock Louis]

Deadeye

Had hoped someone would pick up on that one.
Actually in the deep south that was a current term until the 1960s.  Today of course just spurs a trip down memory lane  if they are getting their retirement check.
Kind of like "ain't never locked up the house cept when gone on vacation"

Caprock Louis

Still been lost somewhar in Texas

[Deadeye Dick]

Caprock,
Was in a pissy mood that night. I had seen the term used before without anyone saying anything. Vowed that I wouldn't let it go by again. Will overlook it next time.
Appreciate the explanation.
Thanks,
Deadeye Dick

[Shotgun Franklin]

We tend to use our standards to measure events that took place under different conditions.  That and history has been greatly distorted as of later. Hundreds of barefoot Southern Boys did not go to fight about slavery, they went to fight because the Yankees came down here. I hadc Great Grandfathers who fought on both sides, one spent time at Andersonville the other fought under Forrest. Their Grandkids married. Must have made for interesting talk at family get togethers.

[MJN77]

We tend to use our standards to measure events that took place under different conditions.  That and history has been greatly distorted as of later. Hundreds of barefoot Southern Boys did not go to fight about slavery, they went to fight because the Yankees came down here. I hadc Great Grandfathers who fought on both sides, one spent time at Andersonville the other fought under Forrest. Their Grandkids married. Must have made for interesting talk at family get togethers.

Amen. I too had family on both sides. Only about 20% of the south were slave owners. As Shotgun said, many men fought because the yankees invaded their home states.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

I was just on a vacation in central Tejas.

People down there still speak of "The War of the Northern Agression".

Like Voltaire (I think) once said, 'History books are written by the winners" Had the South been victorious, our history books would read much differently ....

[Drayton Calhoun]

Sir, you have said it all. Much like the fellow on Mythbusters who quotes "I reject your reality and replace it with my own". We have a tendency to do just that. Would we hang someone today for stealing a car? Of course not. Even though our livelyhood may depend on that car, we don't just hang someone for stealing it. But, in the 1800's a horse wasn't just transportation, it could mean the difference between life and death.
We talk about how tough and hardened the people were back then. Were they really? Hanging a horsethief was punishment for a crime that offended all. Now, a mass murderer will have people holding a candlelight vigil when they are sentenced to death for their crime. Seems to me we are the ones who have becomed numbed to crime. We accept far more than our ancestors did and then try to rationalize why the criminal commited the crime and how, in the long run, it is the law-abiding folks fault they did it to begin with. Seems to me they had a bit more straightforward view of law and right and wrong.

[Doc Cuervo]

Well I still use the term,"war of northern aggression"' because that's what it was. I also get rid of five dollar bills and lincoln pennies as soon as I get them, because he was a tyrant and war criminal.

[MJN77]

Well I still use the term,"war of northern aggression"' because that's what it was. I also get rid of five dollar bills and lincoln pennies as soon as I get them, because he was a tyrant and war criminal.

I collect 5 dollar bills and pennys. When I have a lot of them, then I get rid of them. That way I have the satisfaction of getting rid of him a lot AND of a brand new gun.

[GunClick Rick]

[WaddWatsonEllis]

As usual, I am divided on this ...

Wadd Watson Ellis the first fought skirmishing and guerilla action against Sherman's logistics ...

That's on my mother's side ...

On my father's side, they wore the Bluse and fought down the Eastern Seaboard with Pennsylvania units ....

So I kinda feel the pain for both sides ....

[Delmonico]

Anyone who thinks either this side or that side was the good guy in that war of many names sure as hell ain't studied it.  The time when the US almost had two dictators, funny they served at the same time and were born less than a 100 miles apart. 

[Dead I]

They speak of Indian slaughtering ok but do not research Sand Creek and what angolos did.  Totally incomprehensible yet to those men a fight well done. 

Sand Creek has been studied for a century.  The trouble was the Colorado Volunteers had seen the bodies of the Hungate family, who had been butchered by Black Kettles band.  The Indians murdered all of the settlers around Denver and had even stopped the mail.  The people feared starvation.  They trailed the Indians back to the band camped at Sand Creek.  The battle lasted all day long.  Indians, man, boy and women hunkered down by the side of the creek and fought hard for  hours.  Did the Indians deserve what they got?  Just ask the Hungates.

[Stillwater]

Sand Creek has been studied for a century.  The trouble was the Colorado Volunteers had seen the bodies of the Hungate family, who had been butchered by Black Kettles band.  The Indians murdered all of the settlers around Denver and had even stopped the mail.  The people feared starvation.  They trailed the Indians back to the band camped at Sand Creek.  The battle lasted all day long.  Indians, man, boy and women hunkered down by the side of the creek and fought hard for  hours.  Did the Indians deserve what they got?  Just ask the Hungates.

Good post Steve...

Bill

[Doc Cuervo]

Sand Creek has been studied for a century.  The trouble was the Colorado Volunteers had seen the bodies of the Hungate family, who had been butchered by Black Kettles band.  The Indians murdered all of the settlers around Denver and had even stopped the mail.  The people feared starvation.  They trailed the Indians back to the band camped at Sand Creek.  The battle lasted all day long.  Indians, man, boy and women hunkered down by the side of the creek and fought hard for  hours.  Did the Indians deserve what they got?  Just ask the Hungates.

Another point of contention, was the fact that black kettle was in the habit of raiding and murdering while the weather and access to food, feed and supplies were good, then becoming, "peaceful inndians", for the winter and resuming their bloodthirsty rampages once they were all fattened up and happy in the summer. The people in the west were aware of this and knew the drill. The big outcry was from the eastern bleeding hearts that had no idea of what the situation really was.
We have very simillar situations today.

[MJN77]

Another point of contention, was the fact that black kettle was in the habit of raiding and murdering while the weather and access to food, feed and supplies were good, then becoming, "peaceful inndians", for the winter and resuming their bloodthirsty rampages once they were all fattened up and happy in the summer. The people in the west were aware of this and knew the drill. The big outcry was from the eastern bleeding hearts that had no idea of what the situation really was.
We have very simillar situations today.

Hell, it wasn't just Black Kettle's group. Most of the "warring" tribes did this. Geronimo was known for this too. He would "surrender", live on the reservation for a while and do his killing and raiding in Mexico. Then he would get bored, leave the reservation, live in Mexico and raid into Arizona until mexican troops chased him back into the U.S. to "surrender" again.

[Shotgun Franklin]

Very often Texas Rangers would track raiding Comanches back to Indian Territory where Federal Troops would stop the Rangers and order them away from the 'peaceful' Indians on the reservations.