Finally found a bullet my Lightning didnt like.... PRS 250..

[Dalton Masterson]

I shoot a Pedersoli Lightning as my main match rifle. I have shot it since they first came out with them, and more than likely, am shooting it with black powder. I have always had a little blowback with it, especially with smokeless, and have been trying to alleviate that problem a little bit by going to a softer lead, and by using a 250 gr. bullet as opposed to a 200 gr bullet.
I have been using DDs 200 gr Big Lube with great success and tried the PRS 250.
Come to find out, the PRS 250 doesnt work that well in my Lightning. I am not quite sure what is happening in there as it does it, but I basically have to cock the rifle 20 times for 10 shots.
My o.a.l. is the same, so that rules that out. I suspect its just the larger flat point hanging up in there somehow. I suppose some good winter test time is in order.

NOW, in my 73, the PRS 250 rocks!
Any suggestions? I am sure most of you would say get rid of the Lightning, but that isnt gonna happen..
DM

[Springfield Slim]

The PRS is a bit fatter, but if you are crimping in the crimp grooves it should also be longer OAL than the J/P 200. If you want a pointier bullet I would suggest the Lyman 454190. It still weighs 250 and has a longer bearing surface, just doesn't hold as much lube.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

If crimping in the crimp groove of the PRS 250 makes it longer than the 200, try crimping on the body with a good roll crimp wherever it would give the same OAL as the 200.  I'm not sure, but that might work.  with lead bullets it should make its' own groove.

I'm not a loading expert, but I have done this before.  However, it wasn't to make a slide-gun work, only to get a shorter OAL, but with a longer bullet.

[hellgate]

I don't own a Lightening but think they are cool. As for the blowby, I'm assuming you mean fouling getting back into the action. A couple of things that can help: heavier bullet, bigger powder charge, good crimp and thinner brass. The first  3 suggestions build up more pressure to swell the case to better seal the chamber and the last lets the case swell to seal the chamber. You could also heat treat the brass by heating the mouths in a shallow pan with 1/2-3/4 inch of water using a torch and that can soften the mouths and upper half of the case for a better seal.

[Pettifogger]

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/?item=news&news=recommendations-for-the-proper-ammuntion&lang=en

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Dalton,

You've just proved one pill doesn't cure all ills.  If your gun likes the J/P 45-200 Big Lube®LLC bullet, load it and shoot it and enjoy it.  You may fine other guns that prefer the PRS Big Lube®LLC profile.  Many lever guns do.

The good thing is that there is a Big Lube®LLC pill that does work well, haul a LOT of lube and work with Holy Black in a way that would have made our forefathers extremely jealous.

Glad to have you on the Big Lube®LLC band wagon.

DD-DLoS

[Dalton Masterson]

Yep. I think the big meplat (I think thats the right term) is just hanging up in there.

I have it set to the same o.a.l. as my 200s, as I mentioned earlier. So that should NOT be the problem. I think its just a design that doesnt work in my rifle... (sadly)

Hellgate, yes I was referring to the blowback I get in my face when shooting. Its really noticeable with smokeless, but not as much with black. The spots of lube on my glasses clue me in more than anything when shooting the black.

Pettifogger, Good info there. Basically, I think I have too much flat on my fnrp. I will still keep fiddling with it.

They are a darn good design, and I am glad that the 200 works in it. Thanks, DD.
DM (who has always been on the BL Bandwagon...)

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Do you have a bullet stability problem?  Barrel twist is a function of bullet length.  The bullet might be too long for the factory twist.

Here is an online calculator;

http://kwk.us/twist.html

[Dalton Masterson]

Its plenty accurate, so I wouldnt think I have a stability problem... Never put it on paper though, to see if its heyholing or anything though.. Would that affect the blowback issue?
DM

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Perhaps I misread what your problem was.  If it is accurate, when it fires, stability is not likely the issue.

[Adirondack Jack]

If this is the first 250 ya put through the gun, it could be the gun just don't like the more nose heavy round?  Could be the rounds are slipping in the cartridge guides???

[Dalton Masterson]

Yes, the first time I fed it 250s, I shot it slow, and didnt have much issue. Come Nebr. State match time, it had hiccups like crazy. So I parked it, and tried it again this weekend with 200s, then tried a mag full of 250s. The 200s work great, while the 250s hang up.
Basically, the round was not getting chambered until the second pull of the slide. I am not sure if the round was getting all the way out of the tube, and getting shoved back in, or just wasnt going into the chamber.
DM

[hellgate]

My two rossi '92s are particular about OAL so before I even fiddle with powder charges I make up 5 dummy rounds with the new bullet and run them through the action at a rapid clip starting with the longest OAL i think is sane. Then I seat the bullets a few hundredths deeper and run them through again. Also I am writing down my experience for each OAL in a paper so I can refer to it. Memory fades fast. Run them through til you have what you consider too short of an OAL. You will either find a "sweet spot" or you need to get a different bullet. If a bullet won't feed reliably I cannot use it. I dearly wanted to use the Snakebite bullet but it would hiccup in my Rossis so I didn't get the mold. You might find the heavier bullet needs a different OAL.

[Dalton Masterson]

I will try that Hellgate. Maybe with that particular bullet I need to be seated a little deeper than what I am.
Thanks gents..
DM

[hellgate]

Dalton,
Get the OAL determined THEN screw around with the powder charge. It doesn't matter what the accuracy is unless it feeds well.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Not quite sure how you are getting the same OAL with the 200 grainer and the 250 grainer. Are you crimping them both in the crimp groove? When I first designed the J/P 45-200 there was around .210 of bullet in front of the crimp groove. Around .280 with the PRS bullet. Workin' by eyeball here, I don't have the original drawings handy. I know DD changed the 200 grainer design a little bit, but I don't think by much.

[Adirondack Jack]

Driftwood, I have a mold for your original JP200.  It has a short nose and a longish shank, (which i like because deeper seating means less case capacity).  DD's version has essentially the same nose as the PRS, and a shorter shank.

[w44wcf]

DM,
It sounds to me that it's not the large meplat (nose) diameter that is the issue. It's the ogive. THe ogive is contacting the lands before the cartridge is completely chambered thus softening the firing pin blow. Seating the bullet deeper would solve that problem.

w44wcf 

[hellgate]

Another thought I had on the feed ingissue is if you are using the same OAL with a bigger/longer bullet you could be getting a slight case bulge. I run all my rifle ammo through a factory crimp die that will resize the entire case if the case bulges. That way I still get a guaranteed feed.

[Adirondack Jack]

Some of these issues can be potentially eliminated by simply chambering a round by hand.  If a round seats fully when chambered by hand, just dropped into the chamber of a nose-down gun), then the OAL, ogive, and brass diameter are not issues in the chamber.

 If ya get that far, mark up a sample round, covering it well with red marker, and cycle it in the normal manner.  Then do the same with a round that works WELL in the rifle, and compare the scuff marks in the marker ink on the rounds as clues to how the "round handling hardware" is working with em differently.  I still think maybe the cartridge guides might not be happy with the 250.....