There is helpers then there are clowns

[ZVP]

 Generally posters here are very helpfull but more than benifically right there are some comics here who answer an honest topic like it was a knock-knock joke!
Earlier I was trying to get a viable answer to a loose powder "filler" question and I really got some funny ( to the poster) answers .
I wish people would realize that some of us are legimatelly trying to get answers here!
ZVP

[Camille Eonich]

Well, some people think that it is helping to attempt to inject a little humor into everything.  I can handle those it's the ones that get nasty that make me grit my teeth.  

[Professor Marvel]

This excellent forum, provided free of charge by our illustrious Marshall Calloway for nearly one and a half Lustrum
(see here: http://www.cascity.com/contact-info/about/ )
is considered by many to be an internet community of like-minded souls.

Like many communities one will find merchants, doctors, lawyers, tenderfeet, hivernaughts, grizzled_old_timers and a plethora of others.

As one peruses the numerous subforums one can find certain peculiarities to each venue-

some like the saloon are a wide-ranging gathering place where nearly anything goes.

some like the historical society reflect a sense and desire of deep reflection and research into the topics.

Other subforums reflect "over-the-coffee-pot" discussions of the topics similar to that found in any traditional barber shop, gunshop, woodworking store, etc.

With the above in mind, we will see individual opinions expounded at length; and further one can be entertained by various individuals sharing their knowledge or vendors  sharing their experience whilst simultaneously hawking their products, as well as self proclaimed Snake Oil Merchants (such as myself) waxing philosophically about anything and everything, and one hopes, providing some small entertainment as well as dispensing a modicum of knowledge along the way.

In any "over-the-cup" discussions here one will find that whilst one might "start" a thread, one does not "own" that thread and the thread will often take off in many and varied directions some of which may not be to the liking of said thread-starter - and that is the very nature  of the term "discussion" . Further, opinions are like heads - everybody has one, and everybody
is entitled to one- and further entitled not to have it bitten off (which I have not seen in this case).

It is also important to realize that if one is asking these forums for the opinions and experiences of the membership one ought be grateful for any responses, as it does take time and effort to for these folks to cogitate upon the subject and answer, which time and effort they could be spending in some other constructive endevour.

Remember too that many here have generally been playing this BP game for more years than some tenderfoots have been alive. Those who have been shooting BP since  "Turner was hawking parts out of his trunk"* have seen just about everything come and go -  there really are few "new developments" in this field.

Those here who have "seen the elephant" deserve a certain respect, whilst seldom demanding that their view be considered the "onliest one".

Tenderfoots with a year of C&B under their belt and less than 50 posts in a forum must expect to come in to a forum as the "new student in the dojo" - they should expect to be "sweeping the floors and carrying the water" until they prove themselves, establish credibility, and find  a place for themselves. To expect otherwise is audacious and unseemly.

If one roars in all excitable and such and then gets all upset and aflustered when thread responders don't stick to one's chosen parameters... then begins name-calling...
well....

in this humble scriveners opinion such an individual really doesn't understand this venue or "The Cowboy Way" and they really will not last long here.

Do not take me wrongly, we are truly  a friendly bunch and do not rile easily; if one refrains from rendering offensive remarks to others, remembers not to fly off the handle over misunderstandings;  and bears in mind that there are many opinions, one can do well here.

Also remember that many here have generally been playing this BP game for more years than some  tenderfoots have been alive.
(no, it's not Alzheimers, yes i *am* repeating myself!)

the quote
" I have little use for clowns when discussing explosives like Black Powder..."
is really quite inflamatory, derogatory, and demeaning to others in the context of the comments made,

Some of the interesting opinions that may be held as fact on other forums such as
" If I understand common sense, you do not fill the chambers with triple F and be anywhere near the safety margin built in by the manufacturer!"

and

"A few posts up I have idiots telling me to "fill er up" when loading a .36 or .44 Cap and Ball revolver!
I load brass frames no higher than 20 grains and Steel frames no higher than 35 grains (In .44 cal).
I think that these are safe and sound loads.
You NEVER fill a cylinder up with any BP load!"

Beside being remarkably inflamatory from a n00b, and further insinuating a superiority to the posters that is not born out in your other writing, Those opinions will hold little water here.

That idea  can be entirely understandable, since Of late there have been some instruction manuals that indicate ludicrously small loads in BP revolvers, but Those That Know These Things have  opined  that these are either misprints (in some cases the same text has been used in several manuals for different guns), or have been written at the behest of litigation-fearful lawyers.

With the "remotely possible" exception of some Colt Walker Repro's** all newly made modern BP revolvers are much stronger than that and will safely handle the largest load of FFF BP and round ball  that can be manually fit into the cylinder and still clear the frame/barrel.


* "Since Turner was hawking parts out of his trunk"
If you do not remember this, either via personal experience or thru reading you are still a
N00b. No offense intended, just a point in history that hivernaughts all know, and helps to
differentiate the grizzled_old_timer from the tenderfoots.

** Since the Walker will hold 60 gr of FFF BP, and there have been "some" older less well made
repro's from early days, with unknown stresses on them, I offer this caveat.

Please take the above in the spirit that it is offered, as friendly advise for getting along.

yhs  ***
prof marvel

*** fyi yhs is the common archaic abbreviation for the closing "your humble servant" oft' used in letters between respectable individuals

[Camille Eonich]

Ahhh, I see.  Those guys weren't trying to be funny they were serious as all get out. 

[Delmonico]

Ahhh, I see.  Those guys weren't trying to be funny they were serious as all get out. 

Oh yes, tis a way a lot of us crusty old pharts were trained in their youth and it is the way we still like to the the younger (read newbies) trained.

I'm lucky, I still get away with it at work, but they prefer I not talk to new employee's till they have been here for two full weeks.  And yes this grumpy old phart will take one under his wing and do everything to help him learn if he wants to learn.  The trouble is our methods don't always fit into the modern PC (and I don't mean period correct) world of today where a lot of folks want everything touchy feely and everyone to hold hands at the end and sing kum-bah-ya, we didn't grow up that way and won't change.

[Major 2]

Oh yes, tis a way a lot of us crusty old pharts were trained in their youth and it is the way we still like to the the younger (read newbies) trained.

I'm lucky, I still get away with it at work, but they prefer I not talk to new employee's till they have been here for two full weeks.  And yes this grumpy old phart will take one under his wing and do everything to help him learn if he wants to learn.  The trouble is our methods don't always fit into the modern PC (and I don't mean period correct) world of today where a lot of folks want everything touchy feely and everyone to hold hands at the end and sing kum-bah-ya, we didn't grow up that way and won't change.

xactly, the way I feel ..I lived this long and I ain't changing ....
and Prof. that was a  lucid well though out responce 
Good ol' Turner.... RIP   

[Delmonico]

xactly, the way I feel ..I lived this long and I ain't changing ....

We waited to long to look some young fella in the eye and say "kid I was doin' that afore you were a gleam in yer Daddy's eye."  (Or other statements with a similar drift that Cammie would prefer me not to post.

Was at work here one day, had an old cowboy (the real kind) sittin' on my bench, I was slow so I pulled my stool over and we were listening to cowboy music and talking.  The old boy was at least 70, after that they get so weather beaten youd have to cut them in half and count the rings.

Anyway one of the kids from down stairs came up, had a question.  I told the kid the answer, gave him a hard time about not knowing it and such.  When the kid was gone, the old fella looked at me and said, "Good for you, we had to put up with the old pharts when we were young and dumb, they made men out of us.  If we don't do it for these kids today they'll all grow up to be whimps." 

Well who am I to argue with the wisdom of an old cowboy like that.  Luckly we hire mostly farm kids and they are used to that still to this day.

[Professor Marvel]

xactly, the way I feel ..I lived this long and I ain't changing ....
and Prof. that was a  lucid well though out responce 
Good ol' Turner.... RIP   

you are too kind to this scribbler...

Oh yes, tis a way a lot of us crusty old pharts were trained in their youth and it is the way we still like to the the younger (read newbies) trained.

I'm lucky, I still get away with it at work, but they prefer I not talk to new employee's till they have been here for two full weeks.  And yes this grumpy old phart will take one under his wing and do everything to help him learn if he wants to learn.  The trouble is our methods don't always fit into the modern PC (and I don't mean period correct) world of today where a lot of folks want everything touchy feely and everyone to hold hands at the end and sing kum-bah-ya, we didn't grow up that way and won't change.

And that, My dear Delmonico is why
a) they don't let me talk to salesmen at work

b) I no longer try to teach "safe shooting". Apparently I act like a DI cuz that's how I was taught, (altho I will not lay hands on a student outside the dojo). Nobody gets attaboys for s**t they should already know, and no awards are handed out until actually earned. When feelings get hurt I tell them to "amble on down to NambyPamby Land and find themselves a spine."  Then the lesson is lost, and the entire time is wasted... :-( ... rather like teaching a Pig to Sing....

there is a lovely manual out there in webland entitled "how to to ask a technical question" which I find most enlightening.
Amongst other things it stresses that one has no entitlement "just because one has an internet connection" , and one is in fact coming "hat in hand" to literally request hard-gained knowledge "for free" from those who have gone before and learned it the hard way...

your rambling and grumpy scrivener
prof marvel

[Icebox Bob]

Thank you Professor Marvel for saying what needed to be said in such a lucid and insightful fashion!

Kudos to yoU!

[Delmonico]

Professor, I taught Hunter Ed for 15 years.  took a break about 8 years ago, caught my self saying, "I expect you to do the homework in the back of the book, this is serious stuff, this is not the public school."  Decided to take a break, may go back sometime.

[Percussion Pete]

Ahhh, I see.  Those guys weren't trying to be funny they were serious as all get out. 

Both.

[Fingers McGee]

Professor Marvel,

I've just now had the opportunity to revisit the original thread and see you link to this one.  You have once again provided a cogent and insightful analysis.

FM