.58 Musket Allin conversion

[Wild Billy Potts]

I am thinking of trying my hand at converting one of the Italian repro 61 Springfileds into the 1865 "Allin Conversion" complete in the .58 musket chambering sometime in the 2-3 year future timeframe. I am thinking of using 24 guage brass shotgun shells as the casing for the cartridge and am thinking of ordering a few to see if it's possible, before I start to slowly accumulate the materials to do this.

Am also considering doing this in .50-70 if I can find someone to ream and reline the .58 barrel.

Anyone ever tried this?

[Montana Slim]

No experience with that model, but My Pa has a couple converted Snider rifles in .577
Big gun, big bullet, big boom - has a lot going for it.
58 Musket should be pretty similar experience - I approve !

Regards,
Slim

[ndnchf]

Sounds like an interesting job. 
FWIW, if you want to save some time and effort, I have a complete Springfield model 1866 (.50-70) barreled action with a great bore that I'll let go.  I have no idea how it would work in a repro stock, but it would be a lot less work to try.   Contact me offline if interested.

[hawkeye2]

     I have an original 68 that was retroed using a Numrich 63 barrel and an original hammer and it was a drop in, perfect fit in the wood, bands and nose cap.  The italian barrels are usually larger than Springfield but that isn't an issue if you cut up the repro.  Can you find 65 breech blocks and other parts?  The conversions where the hinge is screwed to the top of the barrel are weak and I don't think going to .50-70 would be a good idea but your idea of a .58 CF sounds interesting and would bypass the expense on lining the barrel.  Bobby Hoyt could line and chamber the barrel but it would be expensive. 

[Wild Billy Potts]

Thanks for the offer ndn, but don't have the funds currently available to make you a fair offer. This project is something that I am thinking of doing a few years down the pike IF I can manage to obtain a hobby type mill that will allow me to make the breechblock and other parts. Most of the converting isn't very hard if I can get the tooling. Still need to find out if I can mange to fit a 500 gr .575 Minie into a 24 gage casing. Guess I should start figuring out reamer making. All in all something that could be enjoyable to do, or maybe not.

[ndnchf]

OK, no problem.  Just thought I'd offer.  Good luck with your project.

[StrawHat]

I have not done a complete "conversion" of an Italian musket to trapdoor but I have fitted and 1866 barreled action to Italian wood.  The original barreled action is smaller than current production Italian barrels and needed to be epoxy bedded to fit.  Same with the tang.  I used a Mississippi musket but the 1861s use a barrel of the same diameter.  The lock also needs to be notched to accept the locking cam and that is easily accomplished with a hnadheld milling machine, in my case, a rattailled file.  I was able to accomplish the entire merger using only hand tools.

The hinge is not only screwd in place ont he original trapdoors it is also solderd to the barrel.  And at the pressures involved with the 50-70 cartridge (or 58 Rimfire) there is no problem with the conversion.  Black powder and lead buulets

The Trapdoor action is much stronger than commonly thought.  Not sure where the "weak" idea got started but it certainly has been repeated for too long.

[ndnchf]

I agree with Straw Hat about the screwed/soldered actions.  The thrust against the breech block on firing is held by the rear of the block as it bears against the tang area.  The pivot attachment point takes very little pressure.  If you notice, the hinge always seems a little loose on trapdoors.  This is intentional.  At allows the block to move slightly rearward on firing where it then locks against the rear action.   Many thousands of hours of research, development and testing went into the various trapdoor designs.  While not as strong as later actions, it is stronger than many people give it credit for.   

[pony express]

The cartridge you are thinking of making sounds about the same as the 577 Snyder-Enfield, and many use 24 GA brass shotshells for that. Don't know if the length would be the same, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work.

[buckskin billy]

howdy yall,
  don't know if this will help, but i have the chance of buying a original springfield '73 barrel. the price is fair but not sure if parts could be found.i have been searching on line for trap door parts and came across this link.
maybe it will help out in your project wild billy potts, but if not i'm sure it's a link of interest.

good luck.

http://www.trapdoors.com/index.php

[StrawHat]

http://www.trapdoors.com/index.php

Another good site for info

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/