I Have The Itch

[Percussion Pete]

I can't stop thinking about getting an !851 Colt. I don't need it for CAS, but the .36 cal would make a nice rabbit gun.

HELP!

[Blackpowder Burn]

Pete,

Everything is relative.  At least your itch is relatively minor and easy to scratch (from the monetary standpoint).  Unfortunately, I have a severe itch for one of the new Merwin Hulberts.  That one is extremely painful, as I've bloodied all my fingers trying to dig deeper in my wallet and find some forgotten funds.  Alas, no luck.

[Fingers McGee]

I can't stop thinking about getting an !851 Colt. I don't need it for CAS, but the .36 cal would make a nice rabbit gun.

HELP!

Quit thinking about it, and just go out and get one.  But, be forewarned, C&Bs are like Lays potato chips.  You can't just have one. 

Welcome to the obsession

FM

[Percussion Pete]

I know. I have 5 already.

A half dozen sounds better.

[Adirondack Jack]

I can't stop thinking about getting an !851 Colt. I don't need it for CAS, but the .36 cal would make a nice rabbit gun.

HELP!

Once ya git em regulated to shoot POA they work nice.  Working on a '62 Pocket Navy at the moment, though a '61 like I used to have is kinda callin' me 

[Fingers McGee]

I know. I have 5 already.

A half dozen sounds better.

Twelve or fifteen sounds even better; and, that's just the '51s.

[Dick Dastardly]

Fortunately, 51s are priced fair.  Same for 60s.  We live in a competitive arena.  Our purchasing power is proportionately high.  So, I say get 'em bargains whilst they exist.

Also beware, Italian clones run their tools dull, fast and hot.  Your clones will require some "tuning" before they are ready for your firing line use.

Also, they are relatively fragile.  I have a brace of very old ROAs that are my fall back guns for when my Pietta 1860s fail.  My ROAs have never left me down.  Of course, they are very robust, heavy and lack the pointability of my 60s.  But, when you come to a gun fight what counts for more?  Reliability or finesse???

DD-DLoS

[Percussion Pete]

You have gun fights?

COOL!

[ZVP]

 They Do break!
I have found that the cylinder rotating hand is particularlly fragile. The thin flat springs break at the point where they come out of the hand itself.
I have had a Pietta fail and just had an Uberti break also!
How frustrating this part can be to fit because sometimes you get lucky on fitting the replacement , other times the part is too oversized (Like my Uberti) and the part needs a gunsmith's hand and money...
  You must put Cap and ball revolvers  ('Cept Rugers) in the "fun Gun" catagory and never depend on one for real self-defense. They are just too much fun to pass up but they do have their own place in the shooting sports. The Rugers are built on Blackhawk frames and the internals are much more dependable and more ruggedlly built.
Misfires due to cap fragments falling into the internals cause problems and you soon learn to sneak a quick look at the hammer notch (on colt styles) and for cap fragments jamming the cylinder against the frame (all makes and styles). Sometimes reciol will loosten a improperlly fitted cap and cause it to fall off the nipple.
I have to respect my forefathers for their guts carrying such "iffy" revolversinto battle, but in their day they were state of the art.
Oh but they are FUN to shoot, all the fire and smoke!
ZVP

[Cuts Crooked]

I read the thread title and was going to reccomend "The Old Blue Ointment" treatment.  But I guess you were thinking of something else altogether.

[Noz]

They Do break!
I have found that the cylinder rotating hand is particularlly fragile. The thin flat springs break at the point where they come out of the hand itself.
I have had a Pietta fail and just had an Uberti break also!

ZVP

Up in the Dark Arts is a 2 part article by Larsen T. Pettifogger that shows how to modify the hand and install a coil spring to stop the handspring breakage problem.

Look for: "Tuning the Pietta Cap & Ball for Competition"

[Percussion Pete]

They Do break!
I have found that the cylinder rotating hand is particularlly fragile. The thin flat springs break at the point where they come out of the hand itself.
I have had a Pietta fail and just had an Uberti break also!
How frustrating this part can be to fit because sometimes you get lucky on fitting the replacement , other times the part is too oversized (Like my Uberti) and the part needs a gunsmith's hand and money...
  You must put Cap and ball revolvers  ('Cept Rugers) in the "fun Gun" catagory and never depend on one for real self-defense. They are just too much fun to pass up but they do have their own place in the shooting sports. The Rugers are built on Blackhawk frames and the internals are much more dependable and more ruggedlly built.
Misfires due to cap fragments falling into the internals cause problems and you soon learn to sneak a quick look at the hammer notch (on colt styles) and for cap fragments jamming the cylinder against the frame (all makes and styles). Sometimes reciol will loosten a improperlly fitted cap and cause it to fall off the nipple.
I have to respect my forefathers for their guts carrying such "iffy" revolversinto battle, but in their day they were state of the art.
Oh but they are FUN to shoot, all the fire and smoke!
ZVP

A new hand is easily fitted. I've done many. You can start by matching it to the old hand, and then fine tuning it. I have the same problem with 1860's. It's all part of owning Colts. I'm going to do the coil spring and plunger from a Ruger to end the broken spring problem. Treso nipples ended the caps falling off. So did 2F powder.

Colts haven't failed me yet in an event.

Rugers? No thanks. They replicate no gun I know of in the 1800's.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Colts haven't failed me yet in an event.

Howdy

Not C&B, but I shoot two 2nd Gen Colts at most CAS matches. I also bring along a pair of 'original model' Vaqueros to every match as backups, just in case. Haven't needed the Rugers until this year. The split trigger/bolt spring on one Colt broke about halfway through the year. That was an easy fix. About a month later the bolt broke on the other Colt. That needed professional attention, it was a bit above my pay grade to fit a bolt. So Colts can break too. Will keep bringing the Rugers along to every match.

[Percussion Pete]

Howdy

Not C&B, but I shoot two 2nd Gen Colts at most CAS matches. I also bring along a pair of 'original model' Vaqueros to every match as backups, just in case. Haven't needed the Rugers until this year. The split trigger/bolt spring on one Colt broke about halfway through the year. That was an easy fix. About a month later the bolt broke on the other Colt. That needed professional attention, it was a bit above my pay grade to fit a bolt. So Colts can break too. Will keep bringing the Rugers along to every match.

I agree that Colts will break. What can we do? It's part of owning the best pointing gun ever made.

Did you heat treat the hand to harden it up? It helps.

[Professor Marvel]

I agree that Colts will break. What can we do? It's part of owning the best pointing gun ever made.

Did you heat treat the hand to harden it up? It helps.

Greetings Monsiuer Pete -

I have heard two sides the debate regarding hardening of the hands -

On the one side the advice is "once you have it fit and timed correctly, harden it to keep it in time"

On the other hand the advice is "if one hardens the tip of the hand, it is liable to then be harder than the cylinder
star teeth and wear them down. The hand at least is a cheaper and easier part to replace and fit."

like Monsieur ZVP I have had the springs break and/or the hand go out of time thru wear. Up till now my poor little grey cells are spinning all asunder with the Gedunken Experiment , trying to decide which way to go, to harden or not; and thus by default and inaction the part remains unhardened ... :-(

Since you have rendered the part "hard", could you possibly track the wear on the star and report back on same?

some day, in my copious spare time, after I finish the roof and all the honeydo's  I may make the time to render the Pettifogger Modification on a pair of replicas and see how they do  :-)

[Percussion Pete]

I talked to Rowdy Yates on the phone about his Colt tuneup. He likes to harden the hand. So, I figured...what the heck....i'll do it.

I have about  1000 rounds on one I did  and it's holding up fine. (so far) I still think the cylinder is harder, but it's hard to know without testing it. I'm keeping an eye on it.

I'll let you know if it fails.

[Professor Marvel]

I talked to Rowdy Yates on the phone about his Colt tuneup. He likes to harden the hand. So, I figured...what the heck....i'll do it.

I have about  1000 rounds on one I did  and it's holding up fine. (so far) I still think the cylinder is harder, but it's hard to know without testing it. I'm keeping an eye on it.

I'll let you know if it fails.

My thanks to you and Rowdy. If it's good enough for Rowdy, I will not bicker with the pro, and thus can give my little grey cells one less thing to worry about . I am off to find my casenite .

yhs
prof marvel

[Wolfgang]

'51 Colts . . . . yep . . . . I had the hankering for one . . . and got one on the SASS wire Classifieds just recently . . . Pietta in about 98% condition . . . I'm a confirmed REMINGTON New Model Army shooter . . . so why a '51 ? . . . I think I watched Tuco in "The Good, Bad, Ugly" toooooo much and got infected with the desire to have one like he was wielding, . . . I'll put a lanyard ring on it when I get back down south to my "workshop" in November.   

The "workshop". . .
http://www.drburkholter.com/cf16.html

A question . . . :
Has anyone ever converted a .44 caliber '51 to cartridge ?   If the only difference between a '51 and a '60 is the barrel ?  Then wouldn't the converter made for the '60 Army work to do such a conversion ?   

Am thinking of the need for a cartridge conversion to be on hand as a loaner gun for a visitor that doesn't want to mess with cap & ball.

[Percussion Pete]

"Has anyone ever converted a .44 caliber '51 to cartridge ?"


Isn't that a brass frame?

[Jubal Starbuck]

   I have a steel framed .44 1851 converted to .44 Russian.  Barrel has been relined to .429"and has a Remington front sight on it.  Had to turn the .44 Russian rims down a little, but other than that it works fine.