A question about BP cleaning.....

[Assayer]

Hello All...........

I purchased some BP Goex 235g .45 Colt rounds with the intent of enjoying some  "thump-fire-and smoke" fun with my 3rd Gen Colt SAA.  I have shot a good deal of smokeless through it and thoroughly clean it after each trip to the range.  I have a few questions regarding the care of my gun............

1.  Can I shoot BP rounds and then switch to the smokeless stuff without cleaning between using the different types of ammo? (I vaguely recall reading somewhere that this might be a BAD idea)

2.  Is any special treatment needed on the base pin or cylinder bushing before using BP?

3.  After a BP session, should I change my cleaning process in any way from what I'd normally do following a range session of only using smokeless rounds?  I understand that cleaning up after using BP is a different animal, but will my "normal" process using Hoppes 9, CLP, and/or Eezox "hurt" anything after using BP?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks!
Assayer

[Springfield Slim]

The Hoppe's won't hurt anything but it won't  get the gun clean either. You will need some soapy water to do that or you will leave BP deposits in the gun. Just the way it is.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Assayer, and welcome.

Easy cleanup following black powder shooting starts with the bullets.  Big Lube®LLC bullets were designed by fellow cowboys for high volume SASS shooting.  The huge amount of black powder lube they haul keeps the fouling soft so the fouling blows out with each shot.  Your second and your hundredth shot both encounter the same amount of fouling this way.

Now, with the fouling soft any water based cleaner will work to easily clean your guns.  I like One part Ballistol to Ten parts water, called "Moosemilk".  I spritz it down the barrel and over any fouled parts and wipe it off.  I pull a boresnake thru the bore and I'm done.  Moosemilk leaves a protective residue as the water evaporates.  I've never had any rust on my guns this way.

Certain crayon waxes used in heathen fad smokeyless bullets does not play well with black powder.  Also, some of the powder residues from heathen fad smokeyless powder is not compatible with the residues of black powder.  The resulting mix can make a nasty cleaning job that will answer to neither heathen fad smokeyless cleaning agents or black powder cleaning procedures.  Expect a mess if you mix the two without cleaning between shooting them.

My cowboy guns do dual duty as sporting weapons.  I do shoot high perssure jacketed ammo thru them.  But, I also clean them thoroughly before changing from one kind of ammo to the other.  FWIW, one of the most important items in cleaning guns that shoot heathen fad jacketed ammo before shooting Holy Black ammo is to make SURE that all the jacket material is removed from the bore.

DD-DLoS

[Short Knife Johnson]

I'm inclined to agree about cleaning between types of ammo especially if different lubes are used.  I have fired BP and smokeless loads without ill effect, but both loads carried the same bullets lubed with SPG. 

One time I fired some scrap jacketed ammo down my .45-70 Marlin Guide Gun after some black loads.  I'm not sure it was a good or bad idea, but I had to get the little bit of jacket fouling out post haste so as not to seal in the BP fouling.

[Ranch 13]

 You can go from black to smokeless with little ill affect. Going the other way around can create a nightmare of fouling in the barrel.
Probably would be best to take just a couple minutes and run a wet patch down the bore and thru the cylinder throats after the black, so to eliminate any chance of the fouling grabing chunks from your smokeless bullets and leaving you some leading to clean out.
  A solution of 1/2 water and 1/2 simple green works very well for cleaning bp guns.

[Assayer]

Thanks for the info folks.
I guess I'll play it safe and clean up the bore and cylinder before making the switch.

Regards,
Assayer

[Noz]

That's smart. I shared a rifle with my grandson at a shoot. He was shooting smokeless, I real black. The cleanup was awful. Took like an hour.

[Cemetery]

1.  Can I shoot BP rounds and then switch to the smokeless stuff without cleaning between using the different types of ammo? (I vaguely recall reading somewhere that this might be a BAD idea) SINCE I GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN BLACK AND SMOKELESS, I COMPLETELY SWITCH TO CLEANING WITH BALLISTOL.  WORKS GREAT WITH BOTH.

2.  Is any special treatment needed on the base pin or cylinder bushing before using BP?  I JUST WASH AND WIPE DOWN, AND USE OLIVE OIL FOR BLACK, AND BREAK FREE FOR SMOKELESS.  SOME FOLKS I'VE MET USE BREAK FREE FOR BOTH.

3.  After a BP session, should I change my cleaning process in any way from what I'd normally do following a range session of only using smokeless rounds?  I understand that cleaning up after using BP is a different animal, but will my "normal" process using Hoppes 9, CLP, and/or Eezox "hurt" anything after using BP? WHAT WORKS FOR ME, IS AFTER BLACK: HOT WATER. PATCH SOAKED WITH WINDEX AND VINEGAR MIX.  DRY PATCH.  PATCH WITH BALLISTOL. DONE.  AFTER SMOKELESS:  PATCH WITH BALLISTOL. THEN DRY PATCH. THEN LIGHT COAT OF CLEAN BALLISTOL.

I WAS TOLD THAT USING PETROLEUM BASED CLEANERS AND LUBES CAN CARMELIZE INSIDE THE BARREL, AND/OR LIFTERS/FEEDING MECHANISMS DUE TO THE HEAT GENERATED BY BLACK.  I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, AND I'M NOT INTO LIVING THAT FAST TO PLAY MYTHBUSTERS.  YOU'RE MILEAGE MAY VARY.

ENJOY THE SMOKE!!

[Dick Dastardly]

My guns that I shoot a lot of Holy Black with seem to get "conditioned" and clean up very easily.  The first time I use a gun with my black powder loads it seems to clean up a mite harder and then the next time it gets easier.  By the third time it seems to be "conditioned" and cleans up easy.

I do know that the powder residue from smokeyless powder is not the same as the soot from black powder.  I also know that the bullet lube used for most smokeless powder loads is a LOT stiffer than my PL-II.  Further, I know that the copper jacket residue left from shooting smokeyless loads is just awful to clean up if I shoot my black powder loads without cleaning in between.

So, I just assume that heathen smokeyless fad powder ammo doesn't play well with Holy Black ammo in the same gun without cleaning at least the bore between.  One of the WORSE cleanups happened when I loaned a 12ga SxS to a pard that had trouble with his at a match.  He shot both heathen fad smokeyless with plastic wads and Holy Black with natural wads intermixed.  It took him an hour before he would hand it back to me and say thanks.  It took me another couple of hours when I got back to the ranch to get the bores really clean.  There was learnin' goin' on.  If I loan anybody one of my guns, my ammo goes with it.  That way I KNOW that it'll clean up rite easy.

DD-DLoS

[fourfingersofdeath]

I have gotta agree with Dan, I use a pump spray bottle with moosemilk, spray it liberally and use a bore snake. I'm a beginner with the BP and I find I am finished wayyyyyyyyyyy before all of the experts using all sorts of methods. My guns ain't rotted away or anything. I have a Bore Snake for the rifle, a couple for the steenking pistolas and one for the shotty (bore that needs some pulling on). Easy peasy, just smells like essence of stink bug, gotta wash up afterwards.

I gotta confess though, I just shot the national champs using the heathen Trail Boss as I was not able to get shotgun loads sorted properly. I'll have to get on that.

[Drayton Calhoun]

Many years ago, Muzzleloader magazine published a cleaning solution that I have used for years. It is One part alcohol (I use rubbing alcohol, but I suppose you could use denatured) One part hydrogen peroxide and One part Murphy's Oil Soap. Even after a prolonged match, three, maybe four patches and the bore is squeaky clean. It was then wiped down and oiled. Never had a problem with it. BTW, it needs to be stored in a BROWN bottle to prevent deterioration of the Peroxide. I have also used peroxide to clean out the bore on an old Mosin-Nagant that had been neglected since before I was born and horribly leaded. Worked great,BUT, must be cleaned and oiled immediately afterwards to prevent accelerated corrosion from the peroxide.

[Yakima Red]

Ballistol. The BP shootists friend.

Did I mention I was a dealer?

[Greysmoke]

All the above things mentioned are great. I figured it out this way a few  years ago before windex-vinegar was available,
http://www.gunfighter.com/cgi-bin/bbs/cowboy-a/cowboy-a.cgi?read=15934
General Lee Greysmoke/aka, former Pyrodex Paul.

[Fiddler Green]

The Hoppe's won't hurt anything but it won't  get the gun clean either. You will need some soapy water to do that or you will leave BP deposits in the gun. Just the way it is.

Yep!

I use Simple Green and water.

Bruce

[Dick Dastardly]

For cleaning guns after shooting the Genuine Powder, the water does the work.  With Moosemilk, one part Ballistol and ten parts water, the ballistol does the lubricating and protecting after the water evaporates.  The remaining film of Ballistol rust proofs and provides some lubricant that lasts.

Alcohol, peroxide, detergents and other agents do work well with water as a base, but they provide NO protection after cleaning.  When using those items the cleaned surfaces need to be protected with some type of gun oil.  Moosemilk does all this with one application.

DD-DLoS

[Percussion Pete]

Dick,

Don't you feel bad about stealing the milk from that little baby moose?

[litl rooster]

I want to know who mugs the moose and who's milking it

[Icebox Bob]

I want to know who mugs the moose and who's milking it

Somebody here can help solve the moostery of moose milk.   
http://www.moose-world.com/moose.html

[Percussion Pete]

How cool!

I want a Moose.

[Wagon Box Willy]

I use a strong moose milk solution to clean but I rinse it off with hot tap water so my gun dries quickly and I then wipe it down with Ballistol.

When I first got my gun and let the moose milk evaporate I got some rusting so now I'm afraid to use it like that.

Has anyone tried Ballistol in a non-aqueous mixture?  I heard about alcohol but that's got a bunch of water in it doesn't it? 

  -Willy