Cost to reload bp?

[smoke]

Howdy all....

I was wondering about the cost of BP relaoding?   I'm looking at getting a Henry in .44-40 and wondered how the reloading cost compare to smokeless. About the same?  more? less?  How is the case life?

Thanks!

[Pettifogger]

Reloading with BP genereally costs more.  You need soft bullets with BP lube which are more expensive than the common hard blue crayon lube smokeless bullets.  A pound of BP is often cheaper than a pound of smokeless powder.  HOWEVER, you use a lot more BP than you would smokeless so the cost per charge is generally a little higher.  Shooting BP is NOT cheaper.  It is, however, more fun than shooting smokeless.  If you use the subs (APP, 777) you can use the cheaper hard cast bullets, but the powder usually costs more so its a wash as far as cost.

[Cookie]

Pettifogger is correct - cost per pound is about the same for powder, but since you use much more BP per casing, the cost is a bit higher.

Although - as for lube, it cost me about $35 to gather ingredients, but now I have about a 5 year supply. So, the cost of that is negligible.

I have a cost spreadsheet made up for the various loads I do, and here's my 2 'standard loads' for .45 Colt (not counting the brass):

BP: $5.80 per 50
TB: $4.49 per 50

So my BP loads are a bit more expensive than Trail Boss (TB) but not overly so. And it's definitely cheaper than buying factory loads.

[Percussion Pete]

Pettifogger is correct - cost per pound is about the same for powder, but since you use much more BP per casing, the cost is a bit higher.

Although - as for lube, it cost me about $35 to gather ingredients, but now I have about a 5 year supply. So, the cost of that is negligible.

I have a cost spreadsheet made up for the various loads I do, and here's my 2 'standard loads' for .45 Colt (not counting the brass):

BP: $5.80 per 50
TB: $4.49 per 50

So my BP loads are a bit more expensive than Trail Boss (TB) but not overly so. And it's definitely cheaper than buying factory loads.

That's  a little less than .12 a round for BP. Could you break that down on each item? I can't come anywhere close to that, and i'd like to see where i'm going wrong.

[Dick Dastardly]

Casting your own bullets can be a big savings.  There are a number of good casters out there casting Big Lube®LLC bullets and you can see their very fair prices.  Add that to the cost of shipping and you have some idea what you can save by scrounging scrap metal and casting your own.

Reloading your brass, as you already know, saves big time.  Now, with the price of primers gradually coming down again, that's another place where you can save.  Especially if you shop around.

Black Powder costs most in stores and least by mail order but you have to do some research to learn the best and lease expensive sources.  Going in with several pards that can split up a full case of 25 lb can be a real savings.

So, as you can readily see, actual costs can vary widely depending on your ability to do some scrounging and some research.  Takes time, but it's worth it.

DD-DLoS

[Cookie]

No problemo,

Primer	1 ea.	$0.038
Powder	26 gr	$0.045
Filler	0.7cc	$0.002
Bullet	200 gr	$0.031

Total = $0.116 per round ($5.80 per 50)

A few notes:
1) These are my standard CAS loads. If I use full-power loads, my costs jump to $0.131 per round ($6.57 per 50).

2) As I said above, these costs don't include the brass (which is highly variable) or lube (which is less than a thousandth of a penny per round).

3) Before spring, I plan on buying a 25# case of Diamond Back BP from Powder Inc. My cost per round will drop another penny.

4) I buy primers by the hundred, so if I instead saved my money and bought a 1000 piece case of primers, I'd save about a half a penny per round.

5) I cast my own lead, but I buy it pre-smelted for about $1.10/lb. Casting is probably the place people have the biggest fluctuation in cost. It's really a question of how much time you want to spend versus how much money you will save. Example - I could save some more money if I bought scrap lead, but I hate all the fumes from smelting. On the other hand, most people buy pre-cast bullets for about triple my cost.

6) According to my charts, changing the size of the bullet has only a minor effect on my overall cost, since there's a corresponding decrease in powder capacity. Basically, switching to a 255 gr bullet only increases my cost about a penny per round.


I know it's a bit nerdy to have this all laid out on spreadsheets, but I like to know this stuff. 

[Cookie]

Dick posted while I was typing, but he definitely echoed my thoughts on casting - that's where real savings can happen. But it takes research and work.

Since I've only been shooting / reloading for a couple of months, I missed the "Great Obama Gun Panic", so I've never dealt with shortages or such. 

But I've had plenty of pardners tell me about prices for powder pre-Obama, and every time I hear about $7/lb for BP a single tear runs down my cheek. 

[Fingers McGee]

This makes it easy to figure cost of reloading

http://10xshooters.com/calculators/Rifle_Reloading_Cost_Calculator.htm

[Percussion Pete]

Not casting my bullets is where my biggest expense is. I live in an apartment. I couldn't see casting in my kitchen. It's bad enough i'm loading BP.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Pete,

I have a couple of pards coming over this Thursday.  We'll fire up the grill, roast some road kill, share a beer and cast some bullets.  Neither of them cares to cast at home.  So, they show up here with some goodies and we cast.  In an afternoon we can make up enough bullets to last a season.

Lesson here. . . . Cultivate a friendship with someone who casts, pick up some brats and beer and spend some quality time casting.  Find some scrap metal and lay it on them.  Soon enuf you will be a welcome guest and you will get cheap bullets.  It's a win win situation.

DD-DLoS

[Percussion Pete]

I'll work on that.

Meanwhile, where's a cheap source for bullets?

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I cast my own Black Powder Bullets, so after getting set up for casting, my only expense there is for lead. I have a pretty cheap supply, so my bullets hardly cost anything, once all the casting equipment was paid for. Of course, there was a learning curve involved casting bullets, but I have it down pretty good now. I generally only sit down to cast once or twice a year, in cool weather. I spend an entire day at it, casting up zillions of bullets to last me the whole year. Time to cast some more now, I am all out of a couple of bullet styles. After I cast them, I size them and lube with SPG, a commercial BP bullet lube. I could save some more money if I made up my own bullet lube, I am just too lazy. So, there is a fair amount of time invested. A day of casting, and a few nights of sizing/lubing in front of the TV. I can size and lube in front of the TV, it doesn't require too much attention. I would never have the TV on for any other part of reloading.

In my mind, powder cost is the big deal. When I load with Smokeless, let's see, the last time I bought Unique I think it was around $16/pound. I usually put in 7.5 grains of Unique when I load 45 Colt. There are exactly 7000 grains in a pound. That means I can get just shy of 1000 rounds out of a pound of Unique. You can do the math. Last time I bought Black Powder I paid $15/pound. Today, that is a pretty good price, but next time I will probably have to pay more.

Anyhoo, I put in around 35 grains for 45 Colt. That means only 200 rounds/ pound of powder at $15/ poiund. Again, you can do the math.

Cost of primers and brass is the same for either BP or Smokeless.

[Howdy Doody]

Good work Cookie and other pards. I never did any ciphering on the subject. Had a seat of the pants feeling it was a third more expensive all around. Started cutting costs by casting my own. That worked out dandy up until I moved and now for the past 5 years I have had to buy lead, where I got wheelweights free before.

I have to admit though, it is hard to put a price on the fun you have shooting flames, soot and brimstone. I am not going back. 

[smoke]

guys, thanks for the info.  Sorry i was MIA from the thread.  Dang internet was down for last day or so.   I'll read this through.  One question....what all is involved in casting?

[Cookie]

One question....what all is involved in casting?

Well....  that's sorta like asking what's involved in cookin'. It's a huge subject with many factors and plenty of opinions on how to do it right.

But the key parts are that you get lead, melt it down, pour it in a mold, and presto - bullets. There's many reasons to cast your own, but in CAS people cast primarily to cut costs. 

Search the internet for more info on casting, there's plenty out there.

[fourfingersofdeath]

BP: $5.80 per 50
TB: $4.49 per 50

It would cost you almost that much for the primers in Australia.

Wano seems to be the only powder available here and is $AU50 a kilogram, which is 2.2Lbs or $AU22.73 per Lb. Lyman Gold Lube for BP is $AU12 a stick. BP friendly bullets? Only one source that I know of, $AU100 per 1000.

So if your a warthog, just close your eyes and pay up!

Trail Boss, I've never bought any of it as I have won a few big jugs of it, but it is about $AU40 a Lb, but you only use about 5Gns of it, so it works out cheaper I suppose.

44/40 with BP, say 30Gns, about 10cents per round, Trailboss, (5Gns works best in my guns, minimum load, max recommended is 6.5 from memory, so we'll run with that) 6.5Gn, 4cents. The costs in the States will be less, but the relationship will be about the same.

Fun and cool  factor goes beyind cost though.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Smoke;   Start right here at home, in THE DARK ARTS;

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,23298.0.html

[Pony Racer]

As long as you buy BP in BULK - you can get your price down to about 10-12.00 (at least for Diamond Back and Scheutzen) per 1lb can.

I buy my bullets in bulk once or twice a year and it has become a planned expense of around 150.00 per buy.

I buy primers by 2-3k most times I see them at decent prices or when someone is getting rid of theirs at discounted prices.

Brass - hard to say...for my 38's I have not bought brass since 2003 ( I was high bid on all 38 brass collected at large state match - i just now finished cleaning it all this summer - my bid was 80.00 - in the end I got over 4.5k of usefull brass (not counting the throw-aways) out of two large buckets).  I think I paid 30-50.00 for 500 pieces of 45lc and same for 44 Russian (once fired) a few years back.

My dillon and single stage have paid for themselves a while back  since I got them in 2001.

My brass shotshells ahve paid for themselves along time ago too, since just continue to reload them all the time.

Only real high expense there is the shot and primers, the fiber wads, over shot cards and glue gun sticks are miniscule amounts.

PR

[Driftwood Johnson]

Pony Racer

Where are you finding Schuetzen for $10-$12 pound? Last batch I went in for was $15/lb for 25 lbs from Maine Powder House.

[Pony Racer]

Winchester VA.  It might have gone up recently but I am still showing it at 12.40 a lb if you buy in bulk - ie 25 lb case.

PR