Short barrel muzzleloadin' shotguns?

[Greysmoke]

Howdy Pards,
Thinkin' of cutt'n my 28" barrels  down to 20" (maybe shorter). I got cyl choke now at 28". I use 65g 2f with AA red wad for knockdowns at matches.
The question is what will my load have to be with 20" barrels to still knockdown the knockdown targets???
Can I still use the AA red wad? Or will I need to use the cardboard, fiber wads to get enough friction to get enough combustion i.e.,
more velocity???
Thanks.
Greysmoke

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Greysmoke says;  "Thinkin' of cutt'n my 28" barrels  down to 20" (maybe shorter)"

WHY!!!  Are you plannin' to start a saloon?  Will you carry it on a string under your duster?

Half the length.

Half the value.

Half the effectiveness.

[Greysmoke]

WHY? More Flame!!!, Bigger BOOOOM!!!!!!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Greysmoke said;  "WHY? More Flame!!!, Bigger BOOOOM!!!!!!"



... full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

MACBETH Act 5 Scene 5

[Montana Slim]

ASpeaking of short barrels.....An associate of mine used a Howdah muzzle-loader, pecussion, 20 ga smoothbore earlier this year...while I wasn't able to see him use it, he reported no trouble with reactive targets at typical CAS distances. I asked about his load and it was a stout load for a 20..more like a 12 ga load. I examined the pistol/shotgun and found it was extremely sturdy & should have no issues digesting that load...I found this an interesting proposition. This was an NCOWS match, BTW.

I see a detachable shoulder stock is now available for the Howdah.

Regards,
Slim
(I gots 30", 28", & 20" doubles, pumps and a leever model - like em' all)

[litl rooster]

I'm corn- fused is this a muzzleloading shotgun or a breech loading gun?

[Dirty Brass]

My guess is when he referred to wads and filler cards he's talking about a breech loader...

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

He said muzzleloadin' in the thread title.  We use the same wads as in a breachloader.

My unsolicited comments, and free advice applies to any one and any shottie that faces the headsman's axe.

Sawdoffs are a scant improvement to match speed and to me are only a fad.  See my remarks above and in past postings.

Free advice is worth every penny spent!

[Cuts Crooked]

A +1 regarding Sir Charles comments. I use a 28" barreled Crescent SxS and I'm very happy with it. It retains it's functionality as a field gun and is more than fast enuff for CAS. I have no use fer a cut down gun, more flames perhaps, but flames don't hammer down the targets.

Now a 97 trombone gun is a whole 'nother story! I gots me a Coyote Cap Special Norchester 97 with a screw in choke system, slicker 'n goose grease and a great turkey gun. Funny........never used it in a match

[Forty Rod]

In the late 70s - early 80s I had a muzzle loading percussion 12 gauge with 12" barrels. (Muzzle loaders weren't regulated to 18" then...may not be now, Haven't had an occasion to check for about 25 years.)  Seems it was a Navy Arms product.  (Not sure.  It's been a long time.)  I seem to remember it took musket caps, too.

It worked just fine to about thirty yards before the pattern went all to pieces.  I used 75 grains (? Like I said, it's been a long time.) of Gearhart - Owens (GOI, GOEX) FFFg (Which I used for almost everything.)and a white plastic shot cup (Unknown brand) filled with 7- 7 1/2 shot (Three or four of us chipped in.  A 25# bag lasts almost forever under those circumstances.), covered with a cardboard cap glued on using hot glue.

Flame and smoke were impressive, recoil was stout but tolerable, knock down power was more than adequate.

Traded it away in a fit of stupidity.

[litl rooster]

My guess is when he referred to wads and filler cards he's talking about a breech loader...

That's why I asked, he mentioned AA and red wads

Free advice is worth every penny spent!

kind of like MacBeth, worth a penny

[Major 2]

"Traded it away in a fit of stupidity"......I've been there  


It does just happen, I know of a sutler that took one* in Trade    ( * muzzle loading percussion 12 gauge with 12" barrels.)

Greysmoke
Perhaps , you might save yours the indignity of circumcision.

No dog in the fight BTW

[Montana Slim]

I asume Greysmoke is referring to a breechloader, but I commented about the extremely short-barreled ML as still be effective, when properly loaded...not many 12" barrels in a typical SASS match...thay may be specifically excluded (tho, I'm not expert on rule details).

....BTW, All my 12 ga load content are 100% organic....no plastic wads.. I use 80 gr FF + overpowder card + fibre cushion + 1 1/8 oz of #71/2. I've tried lighter loads and they work extremely well in all my 30" full-choke period guns..but I prefer the modern repros for everyday use....most of these scatterguns have only been offered with 20" barrels and somewhat open, modern chokes... designed for nitro-loads & shotcups.

Regards,
Slim

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Montana Slim;  Now, that is the solution.  Don't cut, but if you do desire a sawdoff buy one!

[fourfingersofdeath]

I use long barrelled shotguns, I did intend to shorten them, but never got around to it. Occasionally when I have to move between stages with the shotgun, I have tapped the barrel against a door or window frame, but that has only happened 3-4 times in as many years, not really an issue. The longer barrel did save a stage for me once, the shotgun target was a clay launcher and as the clay come out of the launcher a piece broke off it and the clay went on it's way a little slower than most clays travel. Years of shooting Skeet made me hesitate and wait for a new clay. My mate shouted out, 'go on, shoot it!' I woke up and hit it as it was about to disappear over the mound at the back of the range. I swung the gun up and nailed it, surprising everyone (including me). I think if I had of been shooting a short barrelled gun I would have scored a miss and came 97th instead of 96th or whatever the result was

If I did shorten it, I think I would fit screw in chokes, even with cylinder bore that would improve patterns I believe.

[Noz]

While shooting in the US Open cowboy shoot a couple of weeks ago we had a stage where you could take a series of shotgun targets down from the position of your choice. 4 close so that you must shoot them from starting position or you could actually get behind them and 2 targets about 20 yards away that you could advance on and get as close as 3 yards from them. Several of the first shooters elected to try and take all six down from the starting position. Only one was successful. The others hit the targets but the patterns were so wide by then that the targets did not fall.
I'd vote for leaving the barrels full length.

[Montana Slim]

....good show...reminds me of a time I invented my own side match - "shotgun nightmare" & involved a few long-range shotgun KDs...Weren't too many who shot that one clean...but my gun worked like a charm with BP 
Needed about 20 shots to complete the stage, providogn you didn't miss (KDs are optional to re-load/fire).

That idea has turned into a tradition of a shotgun-only stage that we use in our annual club match, but trimmed down to about 14-15 shells (minimum) to complete...and the shooter advances to keep the KDs within 15 or so yds from your muzzle. The Kds often launch clay birds or beer cans (full) for your shooting pleasure. Stationary, optional,  "make-up" targets are available to help folks who ain't so good at aerial shootin' & would like to be clean (or at least try).

It's a favorite of many shooters t our club.

Slim

[Drayton Calhoun]

I read in "Valdez is Coming" that he poured melted tallow in with his shot to keep the pattern tighter out of his short barreled shotgun. Tried it in my old cut down CVA 12 ga. It was an improvement. Just wonder what it did to the pressures. The gun was a kit I got in a drugstore of all places for less than seventy bucks in 86. Still have it, it's a hoot with round ball out to about thirty yards.