who all shoots BP or Subs in 38 specials?

BobinIL · August 11, 2010, 10:34:34 AM

What type of powder and bullets are you using? I plan on shooting a lee 125 grn RF over 777 or APP loaded to where the bullet touches the powder. How bad is the blowback in a rifle from the 38 case? Will I need to run a boresnake through after each stage?

Dick Dastardly · August 11, 2010, 11:38:11 AM

You won't need that boresnake till after the match if you'll shoot Genuine Powder, the One True Powder, Holy Black. Simply load 1.3cc of black powder under a Snakebite Big Lube bullet and yer good to go for a full Three day annual match with no need to clean of fuss between stages or days.

Thousands are doing it.

DD-DLoS

hellgate · August 11, 2010, 02:19:11 PM

I shoot the 158gr bullets of various shapes and lube grooves that I cast myself. I have not needed any "pull throughs" until the end of the day as part of the cleaning ritual. I use both BP and hard wax lubes. No problem. I found 777 to be much snappier than APP type subs. Both shoot clean. About 11 grs of 777 will be your load. I have also seated the bullets (again, 158grs) out to .357 lengths in order to get more powder under the bullet. You will get less blowback in the 38SPL than in a lightly loaded 357 case that has thicker walls that won't seal as well. The 777 develops more pressure which will give less blowback. A good crimp will help too.

Haggis MacGurk · August 11, 2010, 02:39:02 PM

My wife is about to become the first lady darksider in our club. She's shooting .38 special for all main match guns, using DD's snakebite lubed with PL I, in front of enough Goex fffg to allow 1/16 compression. She hasn't shot a match yet, but we have fired 150rds through her '66 yellowboy in an afternoon with no requirement for cleaning, no change in accuracy, and almost nothing in the way of blowback. Similar story with her pistols.

Jefro · August 11, 2010, 03:06:47 PM

Quote from: Dick Dastardly on August 11, 2010, 11:38:11 AM
You won't need that boresnake till after the match if you'll shoot Genuine Powder, the One True Powder, Holy Black. Simply load 1.3cc of black powder under a Snakebite Big Lube bullet and yer good to go for a full Three day annual match with no need to clean of fuss between stages or days.

Thousands are doing it.

DD-DLoS

Yep, 158gr Snakebite with real 3f BP is the ticket. Good Luck

Jefro

August · August 11, 2010, 03:52:08 PM

These guys is right on the money. 158 grain snakebite over the real thing. Messing around with that other stuff is a vexation to the spirit (yours, mine, and the game's).

Haggis MacGurk · August 11, 2010, 05:23:32 PM

Another bonus to my wife shooting the holy black in .38, is watching the expression on other people's faces, namely smokeless shooters expecting the pfff-ting from her guns, and getting a BOOM-CLANG instead

Don't know who is more excited for her first match, me or her

Sorry, won't jack this thread any further. As long as you have a bullet that carries a lot of lube, using real black, you don't have to clean until yer done shootin for the day!

Wills Point Pete · August 12, 2010, 06:19:36 AM

I don't shoot .38s in matches, I have no cowboy guns in .38 now that my number two son has my old Marlin 1894C as a house defense gun. Still, I keep a few .38s loaded with The Holy Black just to surprise folks with my itty bitty S&W Mod 60 .38 and my Ruger SP101 in .357. These are not serious loads (although a soft cast 158 RNFP in front of a compressed charge of fffg would certainly discourage a miscreant, at close range it'd set him on fire. I enjoy the looks of utter amazement from the onlookers when real Black is fired in those short tubes.

Bitter Creek Jack · August 18, 2010, 02:57:02 PM

I run 777 under a 125 grain TC bullet. I have had no problem and only clean after the match. I have in the past run the same load under a 105 grain bullet. Had no problem with it either, but you can hear the 125 better. I use the 777 because I can use pretty much any smokeless bullet with it. The exception I have found so far is the 110 grain bullet, the lube grove is too small on it.

fourfingersofdeath · August 18, 2010, 06:11:16 PM

I've got a snakebite mould but haven't used it yet as I only use 44/40s. I am going to use it for my wife when she gets going (or when I get organised and get her started). She will se shooting a pair of 38/357 Ruger SASS revolvers and my old Rossi 38/357 (the rifle in my avitar). Will 10 rounds loaded with this boolit fit in the Rossi magazine? Hope so.

hellgate · August 18, 2010, 07:40:20 PM

4 fingers,
My older Puma Rossi '92 38/357 holds 10 357 length rounds (1.55"-1.62") without any problems. My newer Harford SS model (no extra safety, same design as the older one w/o the medallian) did not hold 10 rounds of .357 until I removed a plastic spacer at the tip of the spring on the opposiet end as the carrier. Taking out that white plastic thingy did the trick.

fourfingersofdeath · August 19, 2010, 12:56:33 AM

Thanks, from memory it will not take 10 357s. I'll have to dig it out and have a look. I bought a new shiny follower from Steves gunz. I'll fit that before I lose it.

Pony Racer · August 22, 2010, 07:26:22 AM

I use 158 grain bullets and either 1.0 or 1.3cc of powder.

I used to use 1.3cc all the time but as I have shot 38 more and more I have realized that round loaded with 1.0cc with a good crimp is powerful enough to take care of any knockdown faced including texas stars and it has yet to fail me with intermediate range rifle targets (about out to 50 yds).

When I started to reload i copied one of my store bought 38 loads for length - they have loaded and performed well in all 38 firearms I have.

PR

Buffalo Bruce · September 26, 2010, 04:59:24 PM

I recently purchased a 51 Navy Conversion from Taylors in 38 special. My starting load was 20gr of 3f Goex. This is one of the newer versions witch is made to be chambered in 45Colt, so it is much heavier than a Navy Colt should be. To get some bang out of it I loaded 20gr of 2f 777 w/ a 125gr bullet. Works great, shoots to point of aim at 25yds and I have plenty of boom.

Abilene · September 26, 2010, 10:32:45 PM

Quote from: Buffalo Bruce on September 26, 2010, 04:59:24 PM
I recently purchased a 51 Navy Conversion from Taylors in 38 special. My starting load was 20gr of 3f Goex. This is one of the newer versions witch is made to be chambered in 45Colt, so it is much heavier than a Navy Colt should be. To get some bang out of it I loaded 20gr of 2f 777 w/ a 125gr bullet. Works great, shoots to point of aim at 25yds and I have plenty of boom.

Buffalo Bruce,
I'm not sure what you have but I doubt it is a version of a '51 Navy conversion. Uberti makes what they call an 1860 conversion in .38 Spcl, which has the same frame and cylinder as a '51 (non-rebated cylinder), but has a round barrel and Army grips like the 1860 conversion. It really shouldn't be much heavier than the octagonal-barreled '51 conversion. Only the Army grip would be heavier, and not much.

Holden A. Grudge · September 26, 2010, 11:24:14 PM

Pretty sure Cimarron has an 1851 conversion. Not sure if it is Uberti made though.

Abilene · September 26, 2010, 11:46:37 PM

Quote from: Holden A. Grudge on September 26, 2010, 11:24:14 PM
Pretty sure Cimarron has an 1851 conversion. Not sure if it is Uberti made though.

Cimarron and Taylors both sell the Uberti 1851 Richards-Mason. It has the octagonal barrel, brass Navy gripframe, and is a fairly accurate copy of a Colt but with a .357 bore for modern .38 ammo. But again, Taylors calls it an "1871 C. Mason Conversion - 1851 Navy" (they started converting them in 1871). Those are made in .38 only.

Buffalo Bruce · September 27, 2010, 07:23:46 PM

I have the gun from Taylor's that Abilene describes. I was disappointed when I got it home and reailized how much bigger and heavier it was than the 51 Navy (Uberti) that I enjoy shooting as a left handed gun. Abilene is right the one's from Taylor's are only in .38. A number of other importers make them in .45 Colt and all of the 1860 Armies are chambered in .45 Colt.

In mho they, as a marketing scheme, are making these guns in .45 Colt which has increased the size of the gun and totally screwed up the 2 best balanced revolvers ever made. The frames and cylinders are considerably larger.

I have a Army Opentop from about 5 years ago chambered in .44 Colt. Great gun, balanced just like my 1860. It is not possible, I don't think, to have room for 6 .45 Colt shells in a proper sized 51 or 60.

So until they come to their senses, I have bought my last opentop or conversion.

Holden A. Grudge · September 28, 2010, 10:34:27 AM

I have found the same to be true with my Cimarron 1858 conversion (.38 cal). Overall the frame is bigger and the cylinder wider than a standard cap & ball 1858. This increases the weight and overall balance of the gun.
Despite the weight I do really like this gun. Having the 5 ½ barrel version helps in that regard. Also the slightly increased frame size allows my hand to fit better on the grips without jamming my finger up against the trigger guard like on the cap & ball models.
I have been toying with the idea of the open tops and more specifically the "man with no name" conversion Cimarron sells (I like the idea of keeping the loading lever) but am now thinking about the overall weight and size increase from a standard 1851. I will have to see and hold one before going that route.
All good info.

Buffalo Bruce · September 29, 2010, 09:28:55 PM

Holden: Wish there was a way to get this info out so that people know what they are buying. I am really upset about this. They have changed things in midstream and not told us. Didn't know they were doing this with Remmingtons. I have a R&D 2 piece conversion for my '58 and it works great. Buffalo