lost cowboy ,need some one to point direction

[Knuckles McDaniel]

ok I have tried Sass and they make me nervious ,with that timer.
I like doing Old west stuff, but im not a cowboy.
My Personia (ya,ll words) is a Townie . this time its a saloonworker,(piano player) .  But i have Portrayied others townies (deputiy sherrif,store clerks in skits and wesren moviies. .
Most of these folks rarely use a gun
I think i have  drawed a gun and fired it maybe  6 times in a scenerio of my career of renacments .Our club dissolve many years back .some of our members have died. but i miss the commanrodre of it.
would Ncows be for me  or do i need to go elsewhere If elsewhere then Please give directions to whom
for i am lost in trhe desertof whaht they call this internet  with out my bearings

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Knuckles!

You'd be welcome in NCOWS as a gambler, shopkeeper, or your other preferences.  However, shooting at NCOWS matches is similar to SASS.  The level of competitiveness (generally) is not near as much as SASS, though.  Most of us, especially like myself and others who REALLY enjoy shooting, are there to shoot, sit 'round the campfire jawin' and drinkin' coffee.  Naturally, it's a good feeling when you shoot a match well, and perhaps win, but it sure  isn't MY main priority to win.  At our club, Great Lakes Freight & Mining Co., http://home.insightbb.com/~greatlakesfmc/index.htm many times someone only shoots part of the stages or only uses a couple weapons.

I suspect that from the tone of your post that you might not really WANT to shoot and that's OK.  NCOWS is certainly NOT all things to all people, but there are a LOT of pards who drift over from re-enacting, so perhaps you can find what you like.

[Wymore Wrangler]

NCOWS shooters are as competive as any SASS shooters, a pardner from my NCOWS club won the SASS Landrun match this spring, Lani Jump is also the female Minn. State Champ, I shoot for fun like Steel Horse, but there are some highly competive shooters in this game...

[Irish Dave]

Knuckles:

I think you could easily find a home with NCOWS. These pards are right in that NCOWS is also a shooting outfit, HOWEVER, there are many members (certainly in our group and I'm sure in many others) who have little or no interest in shooting, but are much more heavily into reenacting, researching, living history, etc.

They are a welcome addition to the organization whether they are flat-out speed shooters, take-your-time fun shooters or never shoot at all.

NCOWS is a big tent that has room for shooters, reenactors, historians and just about anyone else who has a genuine love of and appreciation for the Old West. There's plenty of comraderie, shared interests, exchanges of information and just generally good natured, well-informed folks in this bunch (no, not 100 percent, but a goodly number ).

I think it would be worth your time and money to join up for at least one year, get the magazine, see what we're about, spend some time on the NCOWS forums (here and The Frontier Spot) and check it out for yourself. I think you'll find a number of like-minded pards ridin' for this brand.

[Wymore Wrangler]

Joss, maybe some of the newer and smaller clubs maybe aren't into action WAS shooting, but the majority of the older clubs (with the bulk of the NCOWS membership) were established by action shooters, I've spoken recently with both George Glenn and Dave Williams about the beings of NCOWS, they both co-founded the organization, and it was established to be a action shooting organization.    NTR, FDMR, BRR are all action clubs, I haven't shot at Ackley, but I have shot with more than several of those club members and there isn't anything slow about how they shoot.  Cherokee and Mount Ary I've heard are a little slower place, I'm heading over next month to shoot Mount Ary for the first time, going to meet a couple of central Iowa NCOWS shooters over there for a play day.  Bottom line is that clubs that cater to the local shooters wheter it be NCOWS or SASS are going to be successful. 

[French Jack]

Knuckles:  Certainly there are NCOWS Posses that are shooter/competition driven.  There is no argument at all on that point.  There are also posses that have as much or more interest in the history and lifestyle of the period of the time 1865-1899.  Certainly the majority of the inhabitants of the area west of the Mississippi were not "Cowboys". 

Your feeling of a vacuum for persons disenchanted with the pure shooting and competition end of the game as SASS is leaning more and more towards is not at all rare.  This wish for something more of substance is not easily filled with competetive shooting .

This is one of the driving forces that has led some of us within the umbrella of NCOWS to press for the establishment of a class, group, or category titled "Originals".  This is to provide an alternative to the shoot first, reenact later philosophy.  We are reenact first, shoot later in direction.  We seek to recognize historical effort more than competive shooting:  60/40 to be exact in ratio.

Thus far, we are a small core of members, but we are hearing more and more from other interested members.  Don't mistake us though, we are not against the goals or directions or objectives of our great organization, we simply wish to broaden the horizons.  We are not proposing a revolution and overthrow of a shooting sport, we simply wish to recognize that our interests are more than shooting.

If you would like to try us out, stick around.  You are welcome to visit with us in any fashion that you are able to do so.  Maybe NCOWS can meet some of your needs and  provide some answers to questions.

[Trinity]

I am very interested in NCOWS because of the greater focus on reenactment than the shooting.  I enjoy shooting, but am not that concerned about "winning" so much as having fun.  I have seen that some folks in SASS have taken this fun out of it.  Sadly, there are no NCOWS posses here in NC... yet.

Now, on the other hand.  Over on TFS I have read much about the so-called "stitch police".  These folks are taking the fun out of dressing up and turning that into competition.  What's worse? 

[Wymore Wrangler]

Joss, NCOWS is alot of different things to alot of different folks, that's the great thing about the organization, but since George Glenn until recently has served as the Editor of the Shootist and and has been a NCOWS Senator for years and still serving and Dave Williams, until the last election was the NCOWS banker (executive board) member and as a Senator, I believe they have a very good understanding of the how the organization has grown and where the direction it needs to go to sustain growth...   

And Trinity, I couldn't agree with you more...

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy,

Knuckles,

I am real new to CAS.  I joined NCOWS in March, attended my first shoot in April and am a member because the local posse is made up of mostly folks who came from a re-enacting background.  I have been camping and re-enacting with many of the Kansas Vigilance Committee for nearly 28 years.  I resisted CAS for about 6-7 years because I have been very active re-enacting the period 1800 - 1855.

While I was in high school and college and the Army, I was a very competitive rifle shooter.  Now I shoot for the fun of it and to continue the friendships that I have had for so long. 

The folks that talk about accurate portrayal of citizens of the 1865 - 1899 are those who were already inclined that way.  Meeting the minimal requirements are easy.  At least with the KVC, no one criticizes another persons clothing.  Some of us are obsessive about being PC [I mean Period Correct - no politics involved!].  Some are more interested in shooting and meet the minimun requirements.  Most of the KVC camp at events in PC camps.

Some NCOWS members don't own a tent and camp in a motel.  Sometimes I wish I could afford that.    My point in all of this is that you will be welcome, at what ever level that you want to do and feel comfortable with.

As Grizzle Bear keeps saying, "It only takes 3 people to start a posse!"  I hope that you will check us out and give us a try.

Regards,

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy again, Knuckles!

Well, you can see at least a smattering of the ideas regarding our NCOWS.  Each pard has a valid point.

Again, using our club as an example, we have shooters, re-enactors, shooters who re-enact, and re-enactors who sometimes shoot.  I don't know the official numbers, but I'd say our club is divided 50-50 along the shooters/re-enactors line.  One of our members, Ottowa Creek Bill, is an expert at re-enacting and has been doing his fun as a Native American Odawa (Ottowa) Indian since before he was in Viet Nam in the 60s.  He's been both advisor and actor in numerous films, including Last of the Mohicans.  He's also a shooter and enjoys fogging up a range with Black Powder smoke - and he's a damn fine shooter at that!

French Jack's club down in Ken-tuck is planning the new event that he mentioned briefly;  the Originals class.  Now these fellers who cooked up this idea, French Jack, OC Bill, OT Buchannen, and Black River Smith have this going on as an event in addition to the Regional shoot.  It sounds REALLY fun, and I wish I had the knowledge and gear to do it myself!

Give us a try.  Lurk around here and on the Frontier Spot (when it gets fixed) and ask questions!  We love questions!  We love new folks - especially when they come in from re-enacting so WE can ask questions of them!

[Wymore Wrangler]

River City John, I believe both of my feet are firmly on NCOWS soil for now, and I also believe that my views about NCOWS are the same as most of the leadership in our home club, NTR.  What I am finding hard to believe here on these bulletin boards, is if someone's views are different from your own, your automatically branded a SASS-thinker, which clearly is wrong in my views, I respect your opinions, they just aren't the same as mine...

[Angus McKechnie]

For a few centavos more...

I've been reenacting for some 20 years in a variety of periods so my orientation is definately in this area. I'm defaintely leaning towards NCOWS and I'm going to shoot my membership application and payment off soon. Like many people here, I'm interested in period firearms but I'm definately no expert or anything close (give me an M-16 or a .45 auto and I'm good to go...but black powder ). I used to like SASS for the atmosphere and I fully realize that any resemblence to anything historical was purely coincidental. I'm looking for something more...

As for stitch nazis, in my limited experience, the only ones I ever saw complain about stitch nazis are those who are either too lazy or too cheap to want to put any sort of work/investment into putting together a period outfit. Ironically, the same people who will drop thousands on guns and various modifications but complain bitterly about having to pay more than $30 for a period shirt (and not even a great one at that) or having to get a pair of period correct boots. To take the example further, clothes are consistently cheaper that guns.

A lot of my reenacting background is in Civil War at the Progressive (some term "hardcore") end of the spectrum and yes, the standards can be harsh and leave little room for compromise. I don't mind- it's a personal bar I try to surpass. I wish that standard was applied to latter eras such as the 1870-1900 which is my favorite (and this is especially true in doing military impressions- don't get me going about all the garbage floating around as Indian Wars impressions).

In concluding, I'm not going to be discourteous and "be a stich nazi" to others and I'd expect the same. However, if you ask me for an honest opinion, I'll give your one. Personally, I'm here to have fun and if anyone wants to make a sincere effort to improve, I do not mind helping them out. By the same token, I'm not perfect and I'm always open to suggestion.

Anyway, just my two centavos...I hope nobody takes this the wrong way.

Angus McKechnie

[Irish Dave]

Glad to hear from you, Angus, and looking forward to having you as a member.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Angus,
Where are you located? You'd be welcome in our camp anytime and that is a fine looking animal standing next to you.

Knuckles,
Like most of the guys have already said, we have all done our share of competition shooting sometime in our life time, mine was in South East Asia in 1966/67 and when the targets shoot back, it can be REAL competitive!! It sounds as though you would be perfect for NCOWS, my son William joined this month and loves to shoot, but him and I (as my whole family) have done the living history end of it since he was able to walk. I'll take the history/research end of shooting over competition any day of the week even though I shot high power rifle competition for probably 15 years after my stint in the service, even made it over to Camp Perry a couple of times, and I still belong to a high power shooting club here in Indiana called Hoosier Hills. We have some of the best shooters in the country that belong to that club and who consistantly place in the Presidents 100 at Camp Perry every year. I belong to both SASS (#2434) and NCOWS but my heart belongs to NCOWS and the historical aspect of shooting and I see it changing more in that direction as we get new members who are more inclined in that direction. Welcome aboard!!

Bill

[Angus McKechnie]

Bill-

Unfortunately I'm located out here on the proverbial left coast in California (now ducking the incoming fire) but I've been known to go on the occassional road trip  . I like you your outfit- the Native American side has always been fascinating to me. Out here, I try to mix Spanish/Mexican influences with my impression with uneven results but I keep trying.

Angus

[Major Matt Lewis]

Angus,

Like many here, I belong to both SASS and NCOWS.  At heart NCOWS is a great organization that often takes a bum wrap based on members posting on the wire.  Now, my theory is that NCOWS is smaller than SASS, so there is a greater sense of community, or family would be a better term.  Now that being said, there seems to be more squabbles in the NCOWS camp in cyberspace over innocuous reasons because people DO feel so passionately about NCOWS.  I use passionately as a positive.  Now that being said, I will offer two theories:

1. People don't argue like this in person, when we are in person.
2. At the end of the day, we are still family.

Welcome and I hope you enjoy your stay.

[Angus McKechnie]

I absolutely agree- it's real easy in cyberspace to say things that seem offensive but actually wouldn't be if you were saying them face-to-face. Of course, some things can be offensive online or for real. 

I try to have a good time with it all- the older I get, the more I just roll with things. I'm passionate but not a zealot. In Civil War, some of the younger guys get VERY serious (which can be a good thing) but it's a hobby. There are more serious things in life to really worry about (I was a Medic and Animal Care Specialist in the Army and after seeing enough life-threatening situations, everything else kind of pales, so to say).

The way I look at it, every day I'm able to ride my horse, do the Western thing, and hang out with my family and friends is something to be grateful for.

Angus

[Delmonico]

One note on disagreements, if they are simply about points of history that is normal for historians.

Get around a bunch of what I call "Pedagree, Papered Historians" some time, they often make our minor discussions look mild.  Do they hate each other?  No not often, except some of them are still mad at Paul Hutton for daring to say Davy Crockett surrendered at the Alomo.

[French Jack]

Perhaps it might be more accurate to offer the premise that he was captured, then executed.  I suspect that any possible combatants that survived the assualt were executed in keeping with the instructions for "No Quarter".

[RRio]

ok I have tried Sass and they make me nervious ,with that timer.
I like doing Old west stuff, but im not a cowboy.
My Personia (ya,ll words) is a Townie . this time its a saloonworker,(piano player) .  But i have Portrayied others townies (deputiy sherrif,store clerks in skits and wesren moviies. .
Most of these folks rarely use a gun
I think i have  drawed a gun and fired it maybe  6 times in a scenerio of my career of renacments .Our club dissolve many years back .some of our members have died. but i miss the commanrodre of it.
would Ncows be for me  or do i need to go elsewhere If elsewhere then Please give directions to whom
for i am lost in trhe desertof whaht they call this internet  with out my bearings

Just don't pay the timer or score sheet any never-mind. Just get out there and shoot for yourself! That's what I have been doing. My big goal is to shoot a clean match, and I could care less about the timer.