Mag Holder 101

[JD Alan]

I'm taking another stab at efficient mag holder building. This will be a continuation of the blind rivet thread I started, which was about putting together mag holders. Since pictures are almost always better than words, I submit the following.

First, an attempt to follow Slowhand Bob's idea. After sewing it I used the food sealer to mold it, and it worked pretty well. I made it out of 5/6 leather, but I think I will try a little heavier leather for the next one, and make it a little longer, to better facilitate the belt portion. I want them to fit a 2 ½ inch belt, because I'm finding lots of guys want to use their cowboy belt with their Wild Bunch holster and mag pouches if possible. 

The cuts along the sides of the bottoms are problematic for me, because I don't like the way they look. I don't think it will be a functional issue though. I used rivets on the first one; sort of down and dirty to see how it worked. I'm going to take my time on the next one, plus I think I will sew one, and see which times the most time to assemble; sewn or riveted.

The bottom picture is my goal. This holder is made by a local shop, and I assume they use a press of some sort to get that molded look on the bottom. They charge $50.00 for a double set up. With the amount of work involved that sounds like a deal to me!       

As always suggestions are welcome. Thanks, JD

[Boothill Bob]

JD, those are verry nice magholders, well done pard..

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Nice work, JD. Your design is sound. Those look great.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

    Looking good JD, that's a design that will work well.

[Slowhand Bob]

JD, I really like your molding set up and if I ever get the chance will definitely play with that idea.  Here is a tracing of my current mag pouch and the double slide I mount them on.  As I said earlier I will be widening the slide part a tiny bit to make it fit in better with some other side patterns I use but that should not apply here.  Hopefully I can add some dimensions and instructions soon but remember that when it is oriented to wear on the left side, it is for right hand use.  Which side is determined by the fact that the bullets point forward.

[JD Alan]

Following your guidelines I made one very similiar to that tonight. With two rivets; one top one bottom on each pouch they aren't stable enough. I made them out of 6/7, attached to 9/10 backing. I think I like the more traditional rectangular ones better, if I can work out a few more details. I can hopefully take some pictures tomorrow. Thanks for the pattern and all the coaching Robby, I appreciate it.

[Slowhand Bob]

JD, These appear to be pretty stable when set well with a splash rivet, though I know they are not popular with custom makers they do set tight and offer better strength than Rapid or Cap rivets.  I am supposed to be sending some out in the next few days to friends for testing, much more competitive individuals who will really wring them out for me.  With that said, I like your idea better but would try something a bit different with the mold.  I would make the angled cut at the bottom of the mag portion to match an actual mag and trim them out after drying.  This would require that they be sewn to the back piece but this is pretty similar to how many folding knife belt pouches are made and it is rather attractive and strong also.  Still in the thinking stage on the vacuum process idea but I can still make a form similar to yours and try to make some molded pieces using older traditional methods, until.

On the ones I am doing now I use 8/9oz for the slide leather and the actual pouches are cut from 7/8oz (big difference!) leather.  The large holes, six of them are punced 1/2" and then the two middle ones are cut out as shown to allow the leather to bend to the bodies contour better.  The remaining small holes are strictly for attaching the pouches to the back and I do this with the big heavy setter produced by Heritage for Weaver Leather.  (it is a fact that not all tubular rivets are created equal and Tandys are not the best)

On the mag pouch you will notice that I take a small strap end puch and cut out a relief cut at the bottom to prevent the bunching where the stitch begins (ends?)  The two vertical lines running up from this cut are relieved to help make a nice tight fit to the back of the magazine there.  I drop down about 3/16" below thew mag top and use a v gouge to cut these lines to the bottom.  I use a small French Skiver to skive out between these lines, just a little goes a long ways here so do not thin to much.  Leaving the tiny bit blow the lip untouched makes for a neat appearance.  I now run my glue line all the way around the mag pouch and let it set until ready to sew (about 1/8 " in from edge).  Now is when I wet form these to fit my magazine and I do like to bone them to a good fit.

On the back, slide portion, of the pattern you will see the two horizontal lines running across 1/4" apart and this represents a another skived relief cut.  As before I like to start these cuts about 3/16" in from the edges for appearance.  When all is laid out well, the small holes on the front should be well centered with the larger holes in the back when the slide is folded at the skive line.  Glue the bottom edge of the back to the the front in order to hold thing in position while sewing.  This should create a slide that is a reasonably tight fit on a 1 3/4" belt made from heavy leather.

Connecting the pieces is all that is left and goes reeeeal quick.  Using a pair of the small hobby size needle nose pliers I insert a rivet through each of the holes inside the pouch and then insert a heavy piece of flat metal, a pretty close fit to the mag pouch, to lock the rivets in place.  Now insert the rivets, protruding from the pouch, through the rivet holes on top of the slide part. Flip this assembly over on a firm surface and set the rivet very tightly through the large access holes in the back.  Remove your metal form from the pouch and repeat for the second pouch. 

As stated earlier I like to reset the slash portion of tubular rivets with a concave punch to give it a less abrasive surface.  I am not a fan of the caps they make for splash rivets, they frequently tend to come off under stress and leave an uglier finish than a regular splash anyway (Im told length is the critical factor). I do my edge finishing, but not sealing, on all parts before any assembly takes place.  I finish up by making a quick submersion dye dip in a small plastic tub and after drying I use one light application of Neatsfoot which I apply with a sponge brush.  The next day I apply Leather Kote and buff with sheep wool.  If I can help with anything else let me know.

[TN Mongo]

Great design JD.  Your work continues to get better and better.  They're getting $50 for that mag holder?  I wonder how many they sell at that price?

[JD Alan]

Thanks Robby, I will need to read that a few times to digest it. I've never used any rivets except rapid and copper. Today I've been using copper. 

Mongo, they have people lined up waiting for them. They can't build them fast enough. When you consider a single Bianchi leather mag holder with a clip retails for 37 or 38 bucks around here they aren't really out of line with what the traffic will bear. Mernickle gets 45 for one of his double holders; whether or not they look better than the blocker product is in the buyers eyes.

If nothing else this project is forcing me to work with more precision and to a better overall job lining things up.   

Thanks for the response guys.

[Slowhand Bob]

JD, copper rivets can do the job as far as tension goes but I almost never use Jiffy or cap rivets anymore.  I like copper for where both sides will show or I just want the rustic look they provide but always use the tubular rivets when I can hide the splash and when they are set well you will almost have to tear heavy leather parts to separate them.  Now I have a question for you, on your photo it looks like the bottom is cut to fold over and close but in another photo it does not appear to have a seam there.  Im not sure if I am missing something.

PS: disregard my last question as reading more closely has answered my question.  Looks like the store bout one is wet molded, one way or the other.

[JD Alan]

Robby, I'm not sure which picture or part you are referring to. The only one I made that has a back is the first one I tried; it's in the second picture, bottom right. It has a folded back that's riveted together on the bottom. The "tails" or cut out portions were tucked under (Dalton Masterson's idea) and riveted before the top was riveted on.

The third and fourth pictures show the top and bottom view of the piece I molded in the seal a meal.  The bottom picture shows the bottom of the mag holder I would like to build, made by a local company. I friend loaned it to me so I could take a closer look at it.   

I'm making a trip to Oregon Leather today (not Tandy). They have tubular rivets, so I will pick some up and given them a try

Thanks for the response, JD

[Slowhand Bob]

JD, the best ones will have a head that resembles the one on solid copper rivets and the head will be flat on top.  The cheaper rivets have a bit of contour to the head and will not pull down as tight and flat.  Next time I order from Weavers Ill pick you up one of their Heritage Simplex setters and if you can not find the good rivets I will get you a pack of those to play with as well.  I played with an idea this morning and will try to take a picture for you to look at later.

[Wiley Desperado]

JD, I've been out of pocket for awhile, hope you don't mind if I jump in on this thread. A wonderful ole leathersmith gave me the idea for this mag pouch mold, which I made.  After you case the leather (pretty wet) place it over the female side.  Put the male side in place and press together.  The way I do it is lay the mold on a bare floor and take a heavy square iron tool with a long handle used for packing down dirt and tap it on the closed mold.  OK, stop laughing now... it works.  This mag pouch is made of 9/10 oz leather (very strong) of course it could be made without the flaps.  After it dries awhile you can leave the leather on the male side and carve or tool the molded pouches.   Have fun life is short!!
Wiley 

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Wiley

    That's a right nice looking Wild Bunch rig you made there, and your method for making mag pouches looks like a good one, thanks for sharing pard.

   tEN wOLVES 

[Slowhand Bob]

I like that Wiley and the forms should make for a fast production rate.  I am still somewhat pleased with my current ones but I did try one using a different idea.  This is kinda backtracking to where I started and was made possible by a couple of pieces of scrap foam rubber that I received as padding for something.  I laid the mag on a firm surface covered by wet 7/8oz leather and put a piece of the rubber over this.  I slid the combined total under my press and applied pressure for several seconds.  I trimmed the pouch close enough to allow sewing and then outlined it on the leather backer and sewed.  As can be seen it is a bit rough due to being somewhat rushed but it does offer promise for development if anyone is interested.  I think this metheod would also work as  well in a vacuum system as it did with the press???

PS: Stohlman had two or three books on making pouches and forms for fitting/shaping them.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Wiley, nice rig. The color really works on it. Nice job.

Bob & Wiley, both methods are giving good results. Thanks for the pics.

[JD Alan]

Robby, what you produced in that last picture is exactly what I'm trying to do. Wiley, that is a good looking rig and a good idea. It may be that I just don't have the right mold worked out for the seal a meal. It has its limits, no doubt. A male-female mold seems like the best idea for a double.

Marshall Will was the first one to share with me a pattern for a double mag holder, and then Dalton sent me one. Wiley sent me a real nice one for a single pouch, and you've all see Slowhand Bob's generosity on this and many other threads

Thanks to each one of you for contributing to this quest of mine; I've learned something from each one you, and now I know who to blame 

[Slowhand Bob]

Shux JD, this is one of my great passions, PROJECTS!!  That is what I love about you guys, you are always ready to jump in on PROJECTS and you dawnt laugh at some of my hair brain ideas, though actually I have a tough skin and can see the folly myownselfin, quite often.  I think Wiley is on to the method that will yield repeatable results and if you like the look of the molded/shaped bottom, just transfer those details to the mold assembly.  After cutting the bottom to a correct angle you could even run a quarter round router bit down one side and across the bottom to get an even better affect (effect??).  If you have not looked through the books I mentioned above you might want to check them out the next time you visit Tandy.  If I do not get into my gubberrnunt retirement check to heavy I will probably place an order with WEAVER in the next week or so.  They came out with a new jig for spacing holes (billets, whatever) on strap centers which should allow for the oblong holes to be used without effort and yall know how I love gadgets.

[Dalton Masterson]

JD, I am glad to see that you enjoy doing this so much! Keep it up.
Bob, your projects are great, and if nothing else, inspirational.
BTW, I saw that little jig in the Weaver catalog. Can you pm me how much it is? My local farm store said that I can order Weaver thru them, with a few minor stipulations on dollar amounts.
DM

[Slowhand Bob]

Dalton, here is a page from their latest catalog.  Notice that both holes are sized strictly for their own punches and they are large barreled for sure.