Long Cylinder Conversion

[Harley Starr]

I learned about the 1860 Long Cylinder Conversion from looking at Dennis Adler's books and now I wonder if one can get the Pietta or Uberti 1860 Army converted the same way RL Millington did for Adler?

[Major 2]

How long you want to wait ?
Last I heard, RL Millington was several years behind and he had taken a year off to build his new home.

No question he does beautiful work ( Adler Photo's show that ) the price BTW was about $1200 on up, on your gun.
I have not inquired lately, don't know if he geared back up.

[Dusty Morningwood]

Seems we need to encourage more gunsmiths and machinists to try their hand at this kind of work.  I had a machinist in Baltimore all ready to convert a 58 Remington (milled off cylinder, silver solderedcylinder back and recoil plate), but then I moved.  I do not believe this is rocket surgery we are talking about here.

[Long Johns Wolf]

The work Bob Millington did on these 3rd gen Colt 1860s for Dennis Adler stimulated me to have a pair of Centaure Marshals converted to LCCs with 5,5" barrels and rearsights dovetail on barrel ends.
Smith Klaus Mumme in Germany is doing that for me.
They are hopefully completed during the next couple of weeks (Mumme says) but these conversion artists just need their time (he started 2008). The pair was proof tested by the Munich Proof house last month.
Long Johns Wolf

[Harley Starr]

How long you want to wait ?
Last I heard, RL Millington was several years behind and he had taken a year off to build his new home.

No question he does beautiful work ( Adler Photo's show that ) the price BTW was about $1200 on up, on your gun.
I have not inquired lately, don't know if he geared back up.

As much as I would love to have a Millington conversion, I think Jay Strite might be the man to talk to. I'm not in a rush to get one(or two for that matter ), but I 'm keeping the options open.

[Harley Starr]

Seems we need to encourage more gunsmiths and machinists to try their hand at this kind of work.

Too true Dusty, that way we can open their minds to alittle variety.

[Harley Starr]

The work Bob Millington did on these 3rd gen Colt 1860s for Dennis Adler stimulated me to have a pair of Centaure Marshals converted to LCCs with 5,5" barrels and rearsights dovetail on barrel ends.
Smith Klaus Mumme in Germany is doing that for me.
They are hopefully completed during the next couple of weeks (Mumme says) but these conversion artists just need their time (he started 2008). The pair was proof tested by the Munich Proof house last month.
Long Johns Wolf

Let us know how they turn out.

[The Pathfinder]

Ridgeway, you might want to just look for one of the older John Gren converions. I had an 1860 done around 1990 and its made with the long cylinder. I had mine done with both a loading gate and ejector assy so its Richards than a true long cylinder, but is top notch all the way. Sadly John went thru some personnal problems not long after and they carried over to his business dealings, but if you can find one of his guns for sale its well woth it.

[Harley Starr]

Something else just occurred me. Awhile back, there was a post on Uberti doing a Thuer conversion, and while that hasn't been released, I still think that they could do the Long Cylinder conversion by taking the 1872 Open Top and fitting the 1860 Army and 1861 Navy barrel assemblies with the addition of an ejector rod hidden in the loading lever like the Man With No Name conversion.
I might be a stretch but you never know.

[Long Johns Wolf]

The original Long Cylinder Conversion had many features of the later Open Top including the .44 Henry RF cartridge.
If memory serves the dia of the straight cylinder of the LCC is the same as the forward segment of the C&B cylinder of the 1860 whereas the straight cylinder of the OT has about the dia of the reward segment of the C&B cylinder of the 1860.
If Uberti were up to such a project I would love to see that they adhere to the dimensions of the originals and don't produce again a LCC "on steroids" like their other conversions and the OT.
Long Johns Wolf

[Harley Starr]

The original Long Cylinder Conversion had many features of the later Open Top including the .44 Henry RF cartridge.
If memory serves the dia of the straight cylinder of the LCC is the same as the forward segment of the C&B cylinder of the 1860 whereas the straight cylinder of the OT has about the dia of the reward segment of the C&B cylinder of the 1860.
If Uberti were up to such a project I would love to see that they adhere to the dimensions of the originals and don't produce again a LCC "on steroids" like their other conversions and the OT.
Long Johns Wolf

"on steroids?" 

[Long Johns Wolf]

"On steroids": Uberti beefed-up the diameter of cylinders and increased the height of the barrel lug of their conversions and the Open top. Cylinders and barrel will not interchange with their C&B brethren.
Long Johns Wolf

[Harley Starr]

Well that's aliittle disappointing but I think there's a reason behind it. I think they have to beef them up alittle just to handle different load pressures. I could be wrong.

[Flint]

The cylinder was enlarged to get six 45 cartridge rims in the circle, the centerline was lifted to keep the waterline of the frame in the same place.  Pushing an 1860 Colt rebate back to the breech thins the frame above the bolt to the point where it hardly works, proven by the attempt by ASM some years back, they enlarged the cylinder but not the breech.

[Long Johns Wolf]

The way I perceive this "beefing-up" thing is like this:
# product liability to keep the lawyers off their back.
# to have a simple production platform to make these conversions in not PC .44 Special/Russian (wider rim) or .45 (Colt/S&W, i. e. more powerful) calibers.
Is there another side of the coin? There were and are a number of conversion artists around. These gentlemen convert e. g. C&B 1860 Ubertis, 2nd & 3rd gen Colts and certainly the Belgian Centaures into PC conversions. Their conversions are in line with the dimensions of the originals. The latter was established after I was lucky 2008/2009 and had a lot of them measured and compared to old Colts.
If you want these smiths will make these conversions into nice display pistols or into reliable and long lasting shooting irons as well, for the .44 Colt cartridge (small rim, inside and outside lubed) with BP and smokeless loads, or both.
I guess the fact of the matter here is this. If you want a PC conversion it will not be available off the rack, you have to get it from one of these conversion artists.
My 2 €-Cents but I learnt it the hard way.
Long Johns Wolf

[Long Johns Wolf]

The Centaure Marshal LCC is almost completed: step from frame removed, right side of recoil shield opened & channalled, backplate installed, head of hammer bobbed and firing pin installed, new straight (!) cartridge cylinder  for .44 Colt lathed and installed, liner installed, action job done, proof tested at Munich Proof house.
Like the originals there are no guiding slots (correct word?) for the cylinder notches.
Pending issues: drift adjustable rear sight needs to be dove tailed on top of the barrel, bluing.
Hopefully, I'll get her during September 2010 (that's what the smith says but he is an artist)!
Long Johns Wolf

[Fox Creek Kid]

...Like the originals there are no guiding slots (correct word?) for the cylinder notches...

Bolt approach notches is the common term. 

[Long Johns Wolf]

Thanks FCK.
Long Johns Wolf

[Long Johns Wolf]

These conversion artists are a breed of themselves...they need their time to complete their pieces of art. Today Klause Mumme personally delivered my new pair of Centaure Long Cylinder Conversions to my house. Please, note the dovetailed rear sight of #12089. Took him 2,5 years to complete the task but I like them.
Long Johns Wolf

[Long Johns Wolf]

Mumme says that both converted Marshals were shooting to POA at 10 yards during his test firing, with very little spread...I'll see if that can be reproduced and how they will perform at longer distances like 25 and 50 meters.
Note that the LLC's don't have a loading gate.
For the pics I placed the conversions on Brucs McDowell's book. I feel that's appropriate after the long wait.
Long Johns Wolf