Lyman 454190 Crimp

[Bryan Austin]

Where do you guys crimp on his bullet for BP? In the groove measures 1.6xx but the reloading man says OAL should be 1.5. Crimping in the groove still fits my revolver, dont have a rifle that chambers the 45 Colt. I'd rather crimp in the groove instead of the Ogive.

Any feedback?

[Springfield Slim]

An original Lyman 454190 doesn't have a crimp groove, so what mould are you using? Got a pic of the bullet?

[Bryan Austin]

An original Lyman 454190 doesn't have a crimp groove, so what mould are you using? Got a pic of the bullet?

My bad Springfield, I did not make it clear I was referring to the lube groove and not a crimp groove. Some pics I saw it lookes like the crimp was just at the top edge of the lube groove and some on the Ogive.

[john boy]

454190 Bullet

Where do you guys crimp on his bullet for BP?

Jack - me?  On the ogive with a taper crimp just above the 1st GG.  Normal COAL is 1.595

[Bryan Austin]

Here is a photo of the "Top Brass" filled with 38.4gr/w (40gr/v) of my particular batch of Goex FFF and topped off with the 454190 resized to .451 for my .450 bore and lubed with DD's BP lube. Looks to be a Lyman with rounded lube grooves.

The bullet on the left was seated to make the cartridge an OAL of 1.600 and crimped on the (O'give?) while the bullet on the right was seated to make on OAL to 1.663 and crimped just at the top, but inside the lube groove (rounded groove not squared). Fits fine in the revolver cylinder. The bullet on the right compressed the powder to .17 while the left was compressed to .21.....which the .21 was used in the photo in my original post.

Also you may notice the narrow meplat. This is due to the Lyman top punch #190 rounding off the meplat.

[john boy]

Also you may notice the narrow meplat. This is due to the Lyman top punch #190 rounding off the meplat.

? ... The 190 TP, being the correct punch, should not damage the metplat in any manner.  Do you know why?
Alternative:  fold over a piece of heavy aluminum foil to make a square, put some lube on one side - press into the TP and then lower the arm.  Will form a perfect shape of the bullet nose and there will be no damage to the bullet

(O'give?) ... yes, correctly spelled. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogive

[fourfingersofdeath]

Looks like a job for the Lee Factory Crimp Die or a Taper crimp Die. If you are without funds or are just cheap, you can try bumping them back into the FLS Die a bit, doesn't always work, but does sometimes

[Bryan Austin]

? ... The 190 TP, being the correct punch, should not damage the metplat in any manner.  Do you know why?
Alternative:  fold over a piece of heavy aluminum foil to make a square, put some lube on one side - press into the TP and then lower the arm.  Will form a perfect shape of the bullet nose and there will be no damage to the bullet

(O'give?) ... yes, correctly spelled. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogive

Again I posted incorrect information. The top punch does not damage the Metplat, the Lee Bullet Seating die does when compressing the powder to .17". It doesn't really damage it, just rounds the corners off a little. I kind of like it. With my 44-40s I have a compression die to keep the bullet from getting damaged. I just forgot when I posted the incorrect information that is was the seating die.

[Bryan Austin]

Looks like a job for the Lee Factory Crimp Die or a Taper crimp Die. If you are without funds or are just cheap, you can try bumping them back into the FLS Die a bit, doesn't always work, but does sometimes

I use a Lee bullet seating die to crimp my 45 Colts, Factory crimp die for my 44-40s. Being ignorant still, I think the factory crimp die is easier on the thin 44-40 case and it loves the Mav Dutch bullets.

[john boy]

... filled with 38.4gr/w (40gr/v) of my particular batch of Goex FFF and topped off with the 454190

The top punch does not damage the Metplat, the Lee Bullet Seating die does when compressing the powder to .17"

Jack, that being the case, why not just reduce the powder charge down to 32 or 35grs.  Your using FFFg and either of these charges is more then plenty of powder.  But then - "you kind of like it rounded' so do what you want to.

With the 454190, I use 35gr of FFg seated with the Dillon die and there is no deformed metplat at all. Something isn't kosher because when the bullet is seated with the Dillon die, I hear the powder go 'Crunch' and I know that the compression has to be more than your 0.17 which is really a light compression

[Bryan Austin]

Jack, that being the case, why not just reduce the powder charge down to 32 or 35grs.  Your using FFFg and either of these charges is more then plenty of powder.  But then - "you kind of like it rounded' so do what you want to.

With the 454190, I use 35gr of FFg seated with the Dillon die and there is no deformed metplat at all. Something isn't kosher because when the bullet is seated with the Dillon die, I hear the powder go 'Crunch' and I know that the compression has to be more than your 0.17 which is really a light compression

I think the problem is the Lee product for this bullet metplat. No problems, just something I noticed. The FFF doesn't go "crunch" for me. I only hear a crunch when I compress FF. The 45 bullets compress really nice and easy compared to the 44-40. Can't be done without a compression die....for me anyways.


And yes, for plinking I back off a great bit on my loads. I don't always load for CAS.