Killing power of Big Lube®LLC bullets.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Jack,

The LEE 44 Mag die set has a seater that does my work.  It does slightly round over the corners on the nose, but it doesn't leave a ring.  You might give that a try.  Also, RCBS will make you a seating die that exactly fits the bullet if you care to send them some to measure.  They seem fair in price and their dies are top notch.

Hope this helps.

DD-DLoS

[Delmonico]

Real Hunters don't shoot at anything further than 200 feet. It just ain't sporting! 

With unlimited antlerless permits and a love of venison why be sporting, just kill it clean and legal, the farmers and the car insurance underwriters will thank you,

BTW you've got it mixed up, shotguns are for birds, rifles are for deer.  BTW I've never shot at an unwounded deer at over 250 yards, my 243 gets a bit weak beyond that.

[fourfingersofdeath]

That there's meat in the freezer performance, thats for sure! Whats a Mk111? Probably incredibly obvious and well known, but I'm a bit slow this morning and am here scratching my head. 

[Professor Marvel]

Real Hunters don't shoot at anything further than 200 feet. It just ain't sporting! 

Ahhh my dear Jack -

I Have It on the Best Authority, that the true Sporting Nimrod disdains firelocks of all kinds, instead relying on sheer force of will and superior Nimrodic skills and mind power to compell the game to come to him, skin and gut itself, and before expiring, leap onto the spit over the cookfire. All the best songs say so :-)

Those of us who are still practicing to acquire these skills stare at goats. or shoats. or ginuea pigs.

Do Not make the mistake to stare at Cats, especially Spots the Outdoor Cat, as you will surely lose, and will be compelled to live out your existence as a cat slave.

yhs
prof (must feed the cats) marvel

[Dick Dastardly]

My problem with that technique, Professor, is that I'm near sighted and only bare eyeballs can deliver the proper hex.  By the time I get them close enough I blink and they're gone.  So, I just have to shoot them.  I do like the wild game trance method for those that can properly apply it though.  Didn't Sir Hiss use that method to hypnotize his victims in Jungle Book?

DD-DLoS

[Bryan Austin]

Ahhh my dear Jack -

I Have It on the Best Authority, that the true Sporting Nimrod disdains firelocks of all kinds, instead relying on sheer force of will and superior Nimrodic skills and mind power to compell the game to come to him, skin and gut itself, and before expiring, leap onto the spit over the cookfire. All the best songs say so :-)

Those of us who are still practicing to acquire these skills stare at goats. or shoats. or ginuea pigs.

Do Not make the mistake to stare at Cats, especially Spots the Outdoor Cat, as you will surely lose, and will be compelled to live out your existence as a cat slave.

yhs
prof (must feed the cats) marvel

lol, yeap!!

Ok I confess. During my young ages when I was an avid deer hunter I hunted in the swamps of South Carolina. I am just jealous because all I could see was about 75ft...hehehehe

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Did ya see anythin', Cleetus?

No, but I got a coupla good sound-shots!

[Jamie]

Just a couple of thoughts - like Delmonico, I'm a firm believer in bullet in, bullet out for best results.  It lets the blood flow freely, and reduces the possibility of tissue closer which then enables the lungs to keep inflating for a longer period.  Lose the vacuum, loose the ability to breath, quicker blood loss, quicker death, shorter runs.
Having said that, it seems to me that the most critical issue in my mind is accuracy, and then penetration.  As much as I love certain guns and want to hunt with them, I know enough to hunt in circumstances that make use of their best possibilities.  Hunting the edge of a field with a 44-40 doesn't make as much sense as using it further back in the woods and brush where shorter shots are available, and more deer are dwelling once the guns start booming.  Pick the spot to hunt, and a lack of long range ability is no disability at all.  Half the fun for me is the gun (or bow) I use.  I hunt according to it's strengths.  I suspect that most people involved in using the kind of guns that turn us on here do exactly the same thing.
Will the bullets work?  Of course, just pick your spot to hunt.
Just a thought...
Jamie 

[Delmonico]

Well said Jamie, I taught hunter ed for 15 years.  I was often and still today, asked what the maximum rage of this or that rifle would be for deer hunting.  Well the answer is simple, have someone put up some paper desert plates at unkown rages.  When the get so far away you can't hit it each and everytime, thats to far.  Find out the range of the ones that you can hit each and every time and never shoot at an unwounded one beyond that.  (One someone has wounded to me are all bets off, managed to put the 15th round I shot at one one time well beyond what I ever would have tried at an unwounded one and it worked, it did not get away.  A slight rise and open country can be handy onece in a while.)

[Bryan Austin]

I really have no desire to shoot a 600 yard shot to kill something I can not even see. For me, just my $.02, I have watched many game animals walk right on by just so I could enjoy seeing them. I ate what I killed and watched the rest. I have not hunted much in my adult life and my selection of firearms was slim. A Browning shotgun and an 1889 Marlin 44-40. On occasion I was able to use a Winchester 30-30 made about 1951. Most of my hunting was in the swamps of SC but I did manage to down a nice spike with the 30-30 in Columbus, Ga. As much as I used the 44-40, I only shot it once at a running buck. I missed, of course, but glad I didn't shoot it any more (smokeless loads). The last I hunted with the 44-40 was back in about 1983. Most all my kills was with the ole Browning shotgun. Even in the thick swamps I watched a many deer walk and eat. But I ate many more  I guess our likes and dislikes are based on we were exposed to in our younger years.

[Dick Dastardly]

I use the 3 foot pounds of energy for every pound of animal I'm hunting.  That'll kill if delivered to the vitals.  Pure ft/lbs doesn't cover all the situations uniformly, but that's about what I feel is minimum for clean humane kills on deer sized game.

Wound channel and tissue damage are both factors in considering a hunting projectile.  I prefer a lump of lead that stays together on it's trip thru the game I'm shooting.  Fragmenting bullets are hard to predict.  Soft lead stays together pretty well unless the velocity is above 2000 fps.  Too hard a bullet tends to fracture easier and doesn't give reliable expansion.

DD-DLoS

[w44wcf]

No doubt, the meplat (nose diameter) of a bullet pushed at 1,000-1,300 f.p.s. by black powder has much to do with it's harvesting abilities. Larger meplats harvest more effectively than smaller ones.  The larger meplats (nose diameters) of the .44 and .45 Big Lube bullets give them a AAA rating in their ability in bringing home the bounty........

w44wcf

[Bryan Austin]

No doubt, the meplat (nose diameter) of a bullet pushed at 1,000-1,300 f.p.s. by black powder has much to do with it's harvesting abilities. Larger meplats harvest more effectively than smaller ones.  The larger meplats (nose diameters) of the .44 and .45 Big Lube bullets give them a AAA rating in their ability in bringing home the bounty........

w44wcf

SWEET!

[Sgt Scott]

Dick,
I am trying to understand the 3 foot lb rule. I think this means on a deer of around 100 lbs (make the math easy) that you need about 300 ft lbs of energy minimum for a humane kill. I looked up the energy for a 255 gr .45 bullet (commercial cartridge) and this is what I found; 344 ft lbs at the muzzle, 329 ft lbs at 25 yrds and dropping to 301 ft lbs at 75 yrds. So this also means that this bullet and energy would be sufficient out to 75 yrds and probably should not be used beyond that range. Is my thinking correct?

Sgt Scott

[shieldsmt]

OK, somebody please do the math here and lets see if the pile of school books matches reality.
6 deer and antelope taken, every one drilled through the ribs, bullet gone completely through.
Distances from 80 to 218 yards (the 218 yd was a doe antelope, Hail Mary hold over shot by my son). Typical was 120 yards.

So...44 w.c.f.
120 yards, 209 grain soft lead flat nose, .430 dia., SPG lube, full compressed case of GOEX 3Fg (around 34 grains?), 1,240 fps.

foot pounds at muzzle? foot pounds at point of kill?

Thanks guys.

[john boy]

OK, somebody please do the math here and lets see if the pile of school books matches reality.

Here's a free ballistics software program ... http://www.huntingnut.com/files/pointblank/PointBlankCRBSv18a.zip that calculates energy at given ranges of the trajectory.  Knock your socks off since you want to know ... do the calculation yourself and let us all know the answers!  Be a good learning for the 'somebody'!

[w44wcf]

Regarding ft. lbs. of energy......I feel that it has little to do with game harvesting abilities because it depends too much on velocity.  
Rather, it is the bullet's ability to humanely disrupt life quickly.

Take for example a 2,000 lb buffalo. Which would you rather hunt with?
243 / 100 gr. / 2500 f.p.s. @ 100 yards = 1,700 ft. lbs.
45-70 / 500 gr. / 1100 f.p.s. @ 100 yards = 1,300 ft. lbs  

w44wcf

[Bryan Austin]

Regarding ft. lbs. of energy......I feel that it has little to do with game harvesting abilities. 
Rather, it is the bullet's ability to humanely disrupt life quickly.

Take for example a 2,000 lb buffalo. Which would you rather hunt with?
243 / 100 gr. / 2500 f.p.s. @ 100 yards = 1,700 ft. lbs.
45-70 / 500 gr. / 1100 f.p.s. @ 100 yards = 1,300 ft. lbs 

w44wcf

That one!

[Sgt Scott]

I like the math here..   That .45 was chosen for cavalry troopers because it was supposed to kill a horse (1000 lbs). Don't get me wrong, I like the simplicity of the 3 foot pound rule, but it is very confusing. Energy is important, but can be very misleading. There are many that suggest bigger is better so a .5 would be better than a .45 and .45 is better than .36, but all three do kill (anything from varmits to humans to larger). Big slow bullets or small fast will sometimes calculate to the same energy. Shot placement is also very critical here as well, so 300 ft lbs in the foot lbs might not be the same as 100 ft lbs in the heart. Knock down power, killing power, stopping power are all confusing terms....

Sgt Scott

[Jed Cooper]

Ok fellas, my turn at giving an opinion. I am not an expert, a scientist, a gun writer, or a professional hunter. I have however, killed my share of big old corn/soybean fed Indiana deer. As others have said, shot placement is 99% of the recipe for a clean, humane kill. I have used slug guns, pistol caliber rifles, and hand guns to harvest my favorite game animal,   Bambi!! I like to get close. I only use iron sights. It's just my opinion that any one can look through a scope, and shoot a critter at long range. It takes skill,and patience to get close enough to hear them breathing. So far my proudest moment was in 2007. I grunted a 12 point in, while seated on the ground. At less than 30 ft. he went down with a single round from a 2nd. generation 7.5 colt saa in 357. He field dressed 185 lbs. I now hunt exclusively with black powder in my cartridge guns during that season. As DD said my hunting load is the same thing I shoot cas. with. I get 33 to 35 grain by weight in my 44-40s, depending on brand of cases. Springfield Slims big lube pills are in all of my cas. caliber loads, and I trust them to make clean kills during hunting season. For me, there is something very cool about doing it the old way.  Just a few thoughts,  Jed