NCOWS in SC?

[Blair]

Dave,

I would personally agree with you.
NCOWS persons are extremely knowledgeable, helpful and patient when it comes to helping "new" people into the NCOWS side of sport/hobby.

It has been my experience, that many others in the sport/hobby don't realize this. Generally speaking, they tend to see the Authenticity aspect of things as being hindrance or, perhaps, a handy cap in their ability to enjoy their idea of sport/hobby.
Within the 14 years I have been a NCOWS member, we have never had a NCOWS sanctioned shoot in this area of Florida. There has been an interest here in the information NCOWS' has to offer, specifically related to the publication "The Shootist" was offering.
But... SASS had too strong a hold over what most folks wanted and/or were looking for in their knowledge of what classed as "Shooting Enjoyment".
We had at one point, 20 SASS Shooting Clubs in the State of Florida. I have no idea what that number is now... Many people could go to 8 Cowboy shoots every month. If they planned correctly, all could be done within easy driving distance or each other.
This left little time for those that did their own reloading between shoots to help save money. Let alone those that still had to work for a living to support the sport/hobby. Naturally, authenticity and all that this might mean to many people, took a back seat to what was important to those folks. That was, Shooting!

Now, I personally feel authenticity within this period of time is "relatively speaking" easy to achieve. It does, however, require time to read and research and document what you wish to do in any given period context.
Time, many folks did not want to take if it interfered with their shooting enjoyment.
Some Clubs, because of the limited numbers of Shooters in any given area, became "very" territorial regarding "stealing" potential members.
NCOWS never had a chance here because of it's authenticity "dogma". And I suspect this maybe very true, the farther you get away from the "home territory" of NCOWS.
Some folks are still hanging on, and there maybe some NCOWS Posses form in these areas... but it maybe sometime before a NCOWS sanctioned Shoot maybe a possibility with 
any more member than the original Posses has.   
  Blair

[Major 2]

Blair

Things just might be achanging  
I'm in communication with Cherokee Bodie, he is a member at the CFR&PC ,we are meeting for Lunch next week near Narcoossee/Lake Nova. He has just joined NCOWS.
If I could lure you back from hanging up your guns, get Dennis Hus ( MT Chambers ) his membership , then there is Cutter Carl...
add me that's 5 NCOWs minded folks... others might join  

What do you say want to do lunch to launch Cracker Cow Hunters* NCOWS in FLORIDA ?

* just a working title

with do credit to Okefinokee Outlaw for starting this thread....
Sorry for the highjack 

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

Bo Jon,  I'll PM you.  We now officially have 2 members (you and I) in our not yet formalized posse.  The search for 3 additional members will continue.  This is going to be a long drawn out process.  I thought I had interested a local SASS member who dresses very historically accurate at the SASS shoots and is not thrilled with the short strokes and mouse farts, but he is afraid of the political fallout.  This is ridiculous, since I am not going to abandon SASS.  I just won't shoot with them 4 times a month at the 4 SASS posses in SC. 

[WaddWatsonEllis]

There was an articl on a Sass Shoot in Greenville, my parent's (now gone) home town ...

It might be worthwhile to go to one of their meets and see if there is a subgroup of SASS members who arre intersted in NCOWs ... Here is the video ....

http://www.cascity.com/cas-in-south-carolina/1174/

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

I know many of those folks in the video.  It was a Palmetto Posse match shot at the Mid-Carolina Rifle Club in Gaston, SC, near Columbia.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Well, I would hang out twith them and see if 5 or 10 of them might be interested ... LOL

[Pancho Peacemaker]

SASS had too strong a hold over what most folks wanted and/or were looking for in their knowledge of what classed as "Shooting Enjoyment".
We had at one point, 20 SASS Shooting Clubs in the State of Florida. I have no idea what that number is now... Many people could go to 8 Cowboy shoots every month. If they planned correctly, all could be done within easy driving distance or each other.

NCOWS never had a chance here because of it's authenticity "dogma". And I suspect this maybe very true, the farther you get away from the "home territory" of NCOWS.

.  I thought I had interested a local SASS member who dresses very historically accurate at the SASS shoots and is not thrilled with the short strokes and mouse farts, but he is afraid of the political fallout.  This is ridiculous, since I am not going to abandon SASS.

Similiar situation here in Texas.  There is a VERY strong SASS presence in the DFW/North Texas Area with some 10+ clubs within a 90 minute drive of the DFW metro area.  I am not anti-SASS by any means, but some shooters are growing weary of the super-close target arrays and the repetitive "10-10-4" order of fire that is the common stage scenario in SASS.

The spearhead of our NCOWS efforts was our SASS TG.  He presented NCOWS not as a competing entity, but an alternative shooting style.  Our club ran some "NCOWS based" matches to gauge interest.  The matches were spread by word of mouth and email.  We emphasized the target array (longer distances, more accuracy based) and more challenging order of fire.  We also addressed the "authenticity dogma" by emphasizing NCOWS "one year to authenticity" rule.  We also emphasized the working cowboy class which appeals to lots of folks, especially the newer shooters who don't have "all the guns" yet.

Some mythology we disspelled right off the top:

1)  Yes you can use gun carts (Most folks "heard" NCOWS outlaws them which is untrue)
2)  Yes you can use Rugers  (Again folks "heard" NCOWS outlaws Rugers.  You do need to explain the problems with the modern features of the Blackhawk and the "bisley" frame they sell.)
3)  No, there will be no "clothing police" checking you over at the parking lot.  Dress like you usually do for SASS when you come out.  Just remember that there is no "B-Western" class here.

Over the first year we became "official", folks who took to NCOWS have made the appropriate changes in their gear, leather, and attire to achieve the Level 1 authenticity.  It didn't take any arm twisting.  Shooters who wanted to be in the NCOWS game did the reading, asked questions, and made some changes (most of them very minor.)

The ideals of NCOWS took for about 80% of our club membership.  I would say that the emphasis on accuracy and the "fun" factor at each stage was the draw for most.   Our club stage writers always have you throwing a knife, shooting a bow, or rescuing a maiden in distress at each match.  

Most of our members still shoot SASS as well.  We do our NCOWS matches on different days than SASS, so we have not dropped any match dates.  We do have a few hard corp folks that will only shoot SASS and a few that will only shoot NCOWS, but most will attend either.  No one was "robbed" of members.

[Will Ketchum]

Pancho, a great post.  With your permission I will copy it to the "Form a NCOWS Posse" sticky.

Will Ketchum

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Pancho, a great post.  With your permission I will copy it to the "Form a NCOWS Posse" sticky.

Will Ketchum

Thanks and be my guest.

[John Smith]

)  Yes you can use Rugers  (Again folks "heard" NCOWS outlaws Rugers.  You do need to explain the problems with the modern features of the Blackhawk and the "bisley" frame they sell.)


Isn't the Ruger Vaquero Bisley #1 on the NCOWS Unapproved list?

[Pancho Peacemaker]

)  Yes you can use Rugers  (Again folks "heard" NCOWS outlaws Rugers.  You do need to explain the problems with the modern features of the Blackhawk and the "bisley" frame they sell.)


Isn't the Ruger Vaquero Bisley #1 on the NCOWS Unapproved list?

Ruger Vaquero (Old & New model):  NCOWS Approved

Ruger "bisley" frame (any style):  NCOWS Unapproved  (frame has no provenance to the original Colt Bisley or any pre-1900 design)
Ruger Blackhawk:  NCOWS Unapproved  (modern sights)

[John Smith]

Ruger Vaquero (Old & New model):  NCOWS Approved

Ruger "bisley" frame (any style):  NCOWS Unapproved  (frame has no provenance to the original Colt Bisley or any pre-1900 design)
Ruger Blackhawk:  NCOWS Unapproved  (modern sights)

Isn't thast what I said in my post?

[Pancho Peacemaker]

Isn't thast what I said in my post?

My appologies John.  Your post looked like you were asking for clarification on the bisley issue.  That was my intent.

We've had lots of local folks confused on the Ruger-NCOWS issue, so I always tend to 'over' explain things in a public forum.

Pancho

[Irish Dave]

John:

You're correct, it is an unapproved firearm.

Primarily because it is a copy of Elmer Keith's No. 5 custom revolver and really doesn't resemble a 19th Century Bisley model (Colt) at all.

But standard Vaqueros (both OM and NM) are approved for NCOWS.

[Blair]

 I should have posted this earlier, but I got distracted somewhat...

I would very much like to see a NCOWS Posse form in the Southeast US.
At this point I care not where in the Southeast that might be.
Wherever, that might be... it will serve as a catalysts/support group for other Posses forming.
No one has to give up SASS for NCOWS! or visa versa.
One offers options to some folks that the other may not! It simply means greater shooting enjoyment for willing to give it a try.

Major 2,
If I can help in this, I will be happy to try.
I can not say it will get me back into shooting competitively again , this is simply not in the lay of the cards for me at this time... but I will be happy to support any efforts there maybe for or in this area.
Let me know what you need, and what I can do?

[John Smith]

My appologies John.  Your post looked like you were asking for clarification on the bisley issue.  That was my intent.

We've had lots of local folks confused on the Ruger-NCOWS issue, so I always tend to 'over' explain things in a public forum.

Pancho

No apologies, that's the problem with the Internet, it's hard to read exactly what the poster meant. (no body language or voice inflections).  When I talk to SASS (or others) about NCOWS. I emphasize that I use the same firearms, and wear the same clothing in a NCOWS match, that I do at a SASS match.  Hope to get way up North and shoot a match with you.

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

Well I'm pretty sure we now have 3, so I can start the paperwork once I receive final confirmation from the posse members.  Hopefully the Saluda Saddle Tramps will be up and running in a few months.  The Saluda is one of the major rivers in SC.

On another note, can anyone give me some details on the type of matches that are held?  Any reference material on this?  I'm going to try to convince the local SASS folks to do something other than the usual 10-10-4+, just to try to generate interest.

[Trap]

  The great thing is that you can do pretty much what ever you want, as long as it's safe and dosen't conflict with any NCOWS rules. NO limits on target size or placement. Be sure to point out that only 2 guns are necessary. The women will like that, and if they like it, the men will follow.

[Dutch Limbach]

Okefinokee Outlaw,

There is now a link to this thread posted on the NCOWS web site. Good luck to you and the Saluda Saddle Tramps.

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

Thanks very much Dutch.

Bo Jon Kid,  Please contact me if you are still interested.  I've e-mailed you twice with no response.