Loading gate - which one?

[bluejay]

Hello,
I am trying to choose which loading gate to buy from Track of the Wolf. I have a Uberti 1866 coming and want to get ready for it. They have 3 finish options;
(a) blued
(b) antiqued, (looks like color case hardening)
(c) bright polish, (looks like nickel)

Which gate would you choose and why? I can't make my mind up between nickel and color case? I want it to look good. I don't want it to look weird. Thanks

From the same supplier I want to order the adjustable buckhorn sight they have too. It is described as being for the Lyman Great Plains rifle. I have read here that it fits the Ubertis alright. Will it also fit in a Winchester 1894? I have two I would like to "re-sight".

[bluejay]

Re. loading gate

I have been in contact with a gunsmith and decided to go with the nickel or polished gate. 

[Pettifogger]

Are you planning on shooting the 66 in competition?  If so, all of the gates pictured are Uberti gates and they are the bent tab design.  If you look at the picture you can see the little bent tab on the left edge of the gates.  If you intend to shoot the gun much you need to have the tab reinforced.  The best way is to silver solder on a reinforcing plate behind the tab and that may mess up the finish.  Some use JB weld but that is a band-aid and not a long term fix.  Regardless of who makes the gate, if it is the bent tab design it can and will bend or break.  What's wrong with the gate in the 66 you are getting?

[bluejay]

Thank you Pettifogger. Well, nothing wrong with the gate I'm getting except it is the standard bent tab type that has the issue.
Upon your recommendation I will be reinforcing the new gate or the original, likely both eventually. I do plan to shoot in competition as a "participant". Due to lack of skill and practice, I don't expect to win or anything.

I did think the Track of the Wolf gates were "improved" somehow, however, I am now finding out they might not be. Since I live up here in Ontario, Canada - I am getting all my orders in ahead of time so I don't have to wait too long when they are really needed. There is that, plus I have time now but expect to be busier later.

I have some silver solder around. Is there a picture of where the reinforcing is needed? I presume it is where some of the folks are putting JB weld.

[Pettifogger]

Top -- Old style welded gate
Middle -- Bent tab model with tab broken off
Bottom -- Bent tab with reinforcement

If you look at the one on the bottom it is one of the ones you are looking at (you can tell because the dished part is deeper) and it broke after less than 100 rounds.

[bluejay]

Thank you for posting the pictures. They really show what is going on.

Are there any theories as to why Uberti / Beretta has not addressed the problem?

[Abilene]

Those Track of the Wolf gates are dished deeper than the Uberti gates, so even though they still have the bent tab, they hold up better because the dished flat front of the gate supports much of the base of the cartridge, causing less stress on the tab.  But "holding up better" doesn't mean they will hold up as well as the original heavy duty Uberti tabs, so reinforcing them is still a good idea.

As for Uberti addressing the problem, I was informed that they started improving them a year or two ago.  Well, they look the same, but perhaps they are using a slightly heavier gauge metal.  Cimarron says they receive far fewer calls these days for broken tabs on new guns, compared to a few years ago.

[bluejay]

Cimarron says they receive far fewer calls these days for broken tabs on new guns, compared to a few years ago.

I have a new gun on order so there is a good chance I may get the partly improved one. Still I am going to get the replacement unit and beef it up. I want to try some fine detail work like that.

[Pettifogger]

Those Track of the Wolf gates are dished deeper than the Uberti gates, so even though they still have the bent tab, they hold up better because the dished flat front of the gate supports much of the base of the cartridge, causing less stress on the tab.  But "holding up better" doesn't mean they will hold up as well as the original heavy duty Uberti tabs, so reinforcing them is still a good idea.

As for Uberti addressing the problem, I was informed that they started improving them a year or two ago.  Well, they look the same, but perhaps they are using a slightly heavier gauge metal.  Cimarron says they receive far fewer calls these days for broken tabs on new guns, compared to a few years ago.

Yep, as noted in the pictures the bottom one is one of the deep dished models.  It broke at EOT a few years ago and cost me 4 misses.  Just in case anyone is not familiar with why this is such an issue it is because that little tab is all that holds the loaded rounds in the magazine tube.  With ten loaded there is a lot of pressure on that little tab.  If the tab bends or breaks the rounds will slide through the carrier into the interior of the rifle and cause a jam that cannot be cleared on the firing line.  As far as reliability is concerned, reinforcing that tab is a higher priority than an action job.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

As usual, Pettifogger gives good advice! 

There's another issue to this, but it isn't nearly as important as the reliability issue.  The "improved" models are shaped differently - I'm talking about the dished out part.  I had the rare privilege a few months ago of handling about a half-dozen original '66s ... and one Henry.  ALL (the '66s ... NOT the Henry, of course) had a more triangular "dished-out" shape than Uberti used to put on their rifles.  Now, they were all 1st, 2nd, & 3rd models that I saw - I don't think the owner had any 4th models there ... which is what Uberti copied.  The replacement gates from "Track - Wolf" were all like the originals, NOT like what came on MY rifle.  It's a cosmetic thing, but if you re-enforce one of the new ones, it will both perform well and look authentic.

I can't (couldn't) tell if the originals were case-hardened or not ... too much time and the colours tend to wear off much quicker than bluing, but it's my understanding that the colour-case-hardened gates would also be the most authentic looking.  "Back in the day" I think that the loading gate & lever, and the hammer & trigger were all case-hardened.  (I'm talking about the dished type, not the flat ones on the first models.)

[bluejay]

For now, I ended up choosing the polished silver gate. I felt the blue one would change appearance quite a bit with silver soldering. I wasn't sure about the case hardened one.

I will have something that works well and looks okay to me. They aren't expensive, so I can get a case hardened one to try and work with some day.

There probably isn't a wrong choice because you can try re bluing or re casehardening whatever you have. A worn blue one would look silvery maybe? So might a worn casehardened one?

[Pettifogger]

Really only matters if you are building a wall hanger.  If you are going to shoot it, after 20 or 30 thousand rounds have been pushed through the gate they all look pretty much the same.

[Coffinmaker]

The definition of "Authentic" and back in the Day are kind of moot points.  Unless you've had the opportunity to handle a lot of guns, what was done "then" really doesn't matter.  What matters is function.  First, the after market gates for the "66 are an improvement over the stock Uberti gates.  With the rare exception, also a lot stronger, although some will still fail because they are of the "bent tab" design.  That needs to be improved.  If I have to use a commercial gate, I use the one from the Cowboys and Indian store in California. 
When  I get a new "66 out of the box for a customer to tune up, the very first thing I do is replace the loading gate.  It isn't if it will fail, it's how soon.  Some don't go 5 rounds.

Coffinmaker

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Coffin maker - this is for discussion only.  I certainly agree with you about getting the improved product, but MANY of us ... especially in NCOWS, DO   try to get things as authentic (and/or authentic looking) as possible - as in what was used and or "looks right" "Back-in-the-Day."  It's not a moot point at all ... it's simply ANOTHER point.  Yes, we DO live in the 21st Century.  Yes I DO insist on functionality and safety as well as looks.  "Back-in-the-day" they didn't have cheap-o folded metal gates - they were much stronger and looked better than some of the stock Ubertis - BUT what they did have looked more like the replacement gates from that vendor AND the new ones work better.  You have a win-win situation here.

What you said about the parts breaking - not 'if' but 'when' - I couldn't agree more.

So, I'll happily use the replacement part ... on my repro '66 in 45 Colt (not made back then) that I drive to the match with in my Chevy pick-em-up truck, and I'll do it safely, with no fears of breakage and my rifle will LOOK "right" while shooting! 

[Coffinmaker]

Steel Horse,

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers on authentic, but most of what we play with is just "close."  You are correct, the current after-market gates are much closer to the "original" gates and the deeper "scoop" shape aids in easier loading.
Incidentally, with a slightly different shape (closer to one original I've seen) there wouldn't be a tab of any sort on the back of the gate at all.  We all should take look at what was done "back in the day" and take some lessons on practicality and function.  I just never allow "Authentic Appearance" to override function.

Coffinmaker

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Well said!