.45 PRS BL 250gr RNFP load data request

[Dances With Coyotes]

Alrite pards, after many prayers and sacrifices to the dark lords of the soot I have my stuff together. Would like some data sent my way. Right now starting out with Starline cases, CCI 350 LP primers, 250 gr PRS boolits (30 pure: 1 part tin alloy) right now I'm looking for some dimensions. COAL I've got set right now is 1.545". Which is right at the crimp groove. Too short? How heavy a crimp ya'll running? Mine is set at .462". Too much? Too little. Propellant is Pryodex P with a Lee 2.2 cc dipper. ( it's what I've got available without having to order) with a .030" Walters wad seperating boolit and powder. I've got good compression and no air gaps. Give me advice

[Springfield Slim]

Why would it be too short if you are crimping on the crimp groove? I never measure my crimp, just do a visual that it is crimped well, erring on the side of deeper. Don't know nothin' about wads, I use real BP. Wads on a pistol bullet seem like a waste of time and money.

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings Monsiuer Dances -

Our Good Friend Slim as caster emeritus of the fine Big Lube line of products and shooter of his own product, has provided succint Expert Advise.

Without specification on your part, One assumes that you are interested in the Short Range aspects vis-a-vis CAS shooting, if you are interested in 100+ yard information, I would gladly defer to such experts as John Boy, et al...

Since it is my wont to run off at the keyboard at the drop of a Chapeu (so to speak) please allow me to pontificate verbosely and at length upon each of your specific queries - to wit:

> COAL I've got set right now is 1.545". Which is right at the crimp groove. Too short?

I can understand your dilemma, since technically, factory OAL is often quoted as 1.600"  However in the practical world, in a revolver as long as your cartridge chambers reliably in *your* revolver without extending overly, ie: hanging things up, you will be fine.

In a lever gun, OAL is more critical to proper feeding and dependent almost entirely on what your firearm prefers. In these cases I start with the search engine on this forum for advice pertinent to the rifle in hand, and then make several empty "dummy rounds" to verify proper feeding of the length I have chosen.

>How heavy a crimp ya'll running? Mine is set at .462". Too much? Too little.

Like Slim,  I myself do not become so quantitatively analytical regarding crimp, and actually follow his expert lead precisely.

>Propellant is Pryodex P with a Lee 2.2 cc dipper.  with a .030" Walters wad seperating boolit and powder.
> I've got good compression and no air gaps.

There is much discussion as of late regarding presence of air gaps or lack thereof. Those who prefer no airgap and some compression (especially with Pyrodex, since it is different from pure Black) will often use a wad, or filler such as grits or cornmeal.
Your choice ought to work well, but the proof is in the pudding. 

Ahhhh, but the one thing you have been amiss in reporting is your choice of Lube! Inquiring Minds with little to do Want To Know!

Remember, we are approaching the heat of the summer, so pure Bear Fat would be Right Out; Further (is it possible for me to drag this out any more?) one wants to remember that BP and it's substitutes combust at higher temperatures than smokeless, and thus petroleum-based products are generally frowned upon, due to the incredibly nasty fouling produced. One might want to check the Darksider archives for lube recipes, but When in Doubt, it is difficult to go wrong with SPG, where available.

your humble yappity servant
Prof Marvel

[Dances With Coyotes]

Thanks. Lube I'm running is a 50/50 mix of beeswax and olive oil. I made a small batch up and am trying that at first. Eventually I'll make me up a batch of Pearl Lube and give that a whirl. Pan lubes everything and ran through a .452 sizer.

[Pettifogger]

The wad is just an extra step and expense.  Not necessary for the .45 Colt.

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Pettifogger! You Sir are a Pip.

yhs
prof marvel

[Wills Point Pete]

 I'm no expert on Pyrodex, preferring the real black. Having said that I would remind you that the .45 Colt was loaded with many different BP loads, from about 25 grains all the way up to 40 grains, with, in the old days, bullets weighing from around 230 grains to 255. You do not want airspace, in the lighter loads the factories used cork and fiber wads. Today it s easier to fill the space with cornmeal, grits or other inert stuff.

The wads are a Good Thing in rifle loads, they do shrink groups at, say, a hundred yards or more. Danged few of us can shoot a handgun accurately enough to prove the difference. I went through the pain of loading some fairly accurate longer ranged BP loads for my rifle, they also worked in the revolvers, of course. I then gave it up and concentrated on CAS loads for BP. I have long range loads for that .45 Colt rifle, they use the heathen fad smokeless and either a Hornady JHP or a heavy hardcast. I learned the heavy, longer range loads just so I could say I did it and so I'd know how if I ever got invited to a BP only hunt.

For CAS I followed the lead of the United States Army and load my charges at around 28 grains, I did not load a 230 grain bullet but stayed with the PRS. This lighter load fought the Sioux and the Apache and was copied in smokeless when the .38 Colt failed against the Moros in the aftermath of the Spanish American War. This load, by the way, was then copied in a shorter case and jacketed bullet by the great John Moses Browining for the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol.

What I'm trying to say, Dances, is that there is no sense overthinking this. You want enough crimp so the bullet can't be turned in the case with strong finger pressure. You start with as little as you can because your cases will last longer. You will know you have enough crimp when you can load six in the cylinder, fire five, reload and fire five more. If that one round that has been subjected to ten rounds worth of recoil is still right at the same OAL it started, your crimp is perfect.

[Dances With Coyotes]

Thank you fellars. And Professor I like the way you talk. All purty and refined.

[john boy]

250 gr PRS boolits (30 pure: 1 part tin alloy)

DWC ... 1:30 alloy is a waste of good money for the tin and pure lead that you could be using to buy brass or powder.  Lyman#2 or WW's will obturate the bullets nicely with Pyrodex for CAS.  The 1:30 alloy is what many BPCR shooters use to fully obturate the bullet shooting mid or long range targets or silhouettes

I've been shooting CAS BP/PRS bullets with wheel weights for many sun rises.   

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Forget about weighing your powder. All this talk about different powder weights is meaningless because different brands of Black Powder weigh different amounts.

The 2.2CC dipper under the PRS Big Lube bullet is perfect. No matter what type of powder you use, 2.2CC will give you around 1/16"-1/8" of compression. That's exactly what I use in my 45 Colt loads, although I am usually using Schuetzen FFg. 2.2CC is just perfect when you crimp in the lube groove. And forget the wad too. Not necessary in Cowboy loads. Just an extra step and extra cost. And don't sweat the OAL either. Just crimp into the crimp groove. I just ran down and measured a few of my 45 Colt loads with the PRS bullet. They are running right around 1.550 or so. Give or take a bit, it really don't matter. As far as the crimp is concerned, if you crimp so much that the crimp bulges and the rounds won't chamber, you have crimped too much.

Easy huh?

[Dick Dastardly]

Yup Driftwood, and that's the procedure I use for loading all my pistol caliber Big Lube boolits with Holy Black.  About 1/16 - 1/8 inch of compression and crimp in the crimp grove.  These bullets were designed to feed well when crimped in the crimp grove.  The huge lube canyon is there for high volume match shooting without need to clean between stages to maintain function and accuracy.

Loading Big Lube bullets is plumb easy.  No need for wads, cookies, over bullet smears or expensive bullet lubes.  There are lots of home made recipes that will work well and lots of commercial ones that do also.  So forget the wads.  You don't need 'em for pistol caliber SASS shooting.

Now, long range BPCR matches do benefit from a wad under the bullet.  But, not for lubrication.  The wad used in long range BPCR ammo is there to protect the bullet base.  Some use them and some don't.  Those that use them swear by them and those that don't seem to win as often.  Pick your poison.

DD-DLoS