Spencers at Beecher Island

[Trailrider]

I've brought this up before at various places, but have been reading a couple of newer books on the Beecher Island battle recently, and it brings to mind my same question: "Were Forsyth's Scouts all armed with Spencer Carbines?"

For those unfamiliar with the Beecher Island battle, in September 1868, Major (Bvt. BG) George A. "Sandy" Forsyth led a group of civilian volunteers in a search & contact mission against Cheyenne, Sioux and Arapahoe Indians.  The scouts were hired as employees of the Quartermaster Dept., due to lack of troops available to attempt to stop predations by these tribes against settlers, miners, and railroad construction crews in the Saline and Solomon River areas of Wester Kansas and Eastern Colorado.  The scouts were issued "Spencer Repeating rifles," Colt's M1860 Army revolvers, and 140 rounds of ammo for the Spencers.

On 17 September 1868, near a mostly dry riverbed on the Arrikaree Fork of the Republican River, Forsyth's Scouts were attacked by the combined forces of the above-named tribes, numbering anywhere from 500 to several thousand, depending on sources.  The scouts took refuge on a sandbar island in the middle of the river, and hastily dug foxholes, and used the bodies of their horses, which the Indians had shot down, for barricades.  In the ensuing battle, that lasted several days, Forsyth himself was seriously wounded in the legs, Lt. Fred Beecher, his second-in-command, was mortally wounded, as was Dr. Mooer's, and three other scouts.  Seventeen or so received wounds.

The Indians charged the island (subsequently named "Beecher Island" in honor of Lt. Fred Beecher), several times, only to be driven off by volleys of fire from the Spencers.  During one charge, a well-known Cheyenne warrior, Roman Nose, was mortally wounded.  Eventually the situatio settled down to a seige, and finally, several days later, the Indians withdrew.  With wounded to contend with, and all their horses and mules down, Forsyth dispatched two pairs of scouts to try to reach Ft. Wallace, some 100 miles away.  Both pairs were finally able to get help, and a company of Buffalo soldiers, along with ambulances and doctors were able to relieve the scouts.

The question I have always brought up is were all the scouts armed with Spencer Carbines?  Forsyth, in his memoirs 50 years later, refers to the arms as "Spencer Repeating Rifles".  Sgt. Reuben Waller, of the 10th Cav relief company, refers to "carbines", but here is where things get a bit hazy.

You see, 1Lt. Fred. H. Beecher, was the Acting Assistant Quartermaster at Ft. Harker, where about 20 of the 50 scouts were hired. (The first 30 had been hired at Ft. Hays.)  Beecher was an infantry officer in the 3rd Infantry, having survived two leg wounds sustained during the Civil War, one at Fredericksburg and the other at Gettysburg.  The 3rd Infantry was the only infantry unit west of the Mississippi armed with repeating rifles...specifically, Spencer Repeating Rifles, cal. 52 (.56-56), with Triangular bayonet!  Now it is also true that the 7th Cavalry had companies stationed at Ft. Hays and Harker in that timeframe.  They were armed variously with M1860 Spencer Carbines, cal. .52, and the later .56-50 models, depending on the company issue.  Unfortunately, the Ordnance Reports of that period have a gap in the 1967-1868 period, so we don't know exactly what units of the 7th Cav, had which Spencers in the September time-frame when Forsyth set out on his patrol.

If 7th Cav Spencer carbines were issued to the scouts, were they .56-56 or .56-50?  If the latter, and some were .56-56, the smaller ammo could have been used in both, although the .50 cal bullet would have been a bit loose fit in the .545-.535" tapered bore of the .56-56 M1860's.  OTOH, Beech WAS the AAQM of the 3rd Infantry.  Is is possible, or even probable, that he issued at least some M1860 Rifles to the scouts?   These could have been slung across the backs of the scouts as they rode, rather than being slung from the scouts' shoulders by carbine slings.

In addition, Beecher probably had his own Henry Repeating Rifle with him, as he had ordered it several months prior to setting out on the fateful patrol.  Scout Pierre Trudeau reportedly killed an Indian with a Henry after returning to the battle site with the relief column.  Could he have been given Beecher's Henry prior to setting out for Ft. Wallace, Beecher having no further use for it or anything else of this world?  In addition, Forsyth himself, in his later memoirs states that they had "several" .50 caliber rifles, which were used for longer range shooting (sniper suppression fire in modern lingo).  Those were undoubtedly, M1866 2nd Model Allin conversion trapdoor Springfields, cal. .50-70, although they might have been early issue M1868's with the soild receivers, in the same caliber.

In the longrun, of course, it doesn't matter, but the question about the type Spencers is an itch, I haven't been able to scratch! 

[Two Flints]

Hi Trailrider,

There have been several threads on SSS dealing with Beecher Island.  This is one such link:  http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,10914.0.html

To find more, just type Beacher Island in the search box.

Two Flints

[Trailrider]

Thanks, Pard! I found an interesting book over the weekend, one that touches on just this subject and gives support to my theory:

C. Vance Haynes, Jr., a professor at Arizona State University, among other positions and awards, wrote a book, which he was kind enough to autograph to me at the Colorado Gun Collectors Association annual show this past weekend.  The book, entitled, "General Custer and his Sporting Rifles", Westernlore Press, 1995, Tucson, Arizona, not only gets into Custer's M1866 2nd Model Allin Conversion rifle that was sporterized, as well as the Remington Rolling Block, both .50-70 Gov't caliber, but also touches on the Beecher Island battle and the arms used there.  I had not seen or read this book before.

Quoting Note 38 from Haynes' book in which he references Maj. George "Sandy" Forsyth's books, "Thrilling Days in Army Life", which talks about the use of three (3) Springfield Breech Loading Rifle Muskets (BLRM) at Beecher Island (same model as the basis for Custer's sporting rifle), and "The Story of the Soldier":

"Cavalry troops are normally armed with arbines, but Forsyth, in both books, repeatedly mentions his troops as being armed with Spencer rifles.  This is probably not a careless mistake, not only because a cavalry officer would know better but because his "troops" were not regulars.  They were civilia frontiersmen hired as scouts by the Quartermaster at Fort Harker so Colonel Forsyth could have a command to take to the field in serarch of hostiles." [Background statement on Gen. Sheridan's arrangement for the command omitted here for the sake of saving bandwidth.]  "Forsyth's second in command was Lieutenant Beecher, 3rd Infantry, for whom the Beecher Island battle was named posthumously.  The Spencer repeating rifles presumably came from the 3rd Infantry Ordnance Stores at Fort Harker.  In fact, Beecher was acting quartermaster at the time and was probably responsible for the arms issued to the irregulars."

Fascinating!

[Herbert]

I defintly think you are on the right track here,The 10th cavalry at the time were armed with 50 cal Spencer carbines and the reports of the resque came from them ,this is probly were the confusion came from ,very good reserch

[Henry4440]

In addition, Beecher probably had his own Henry Repeating Rifle with him, as he had ordered it several months prior to setting out on the fateful patrol.  Scout Pierre Trudeau reportedly killed an Indian with a Henry after returning to the battle site with the relief column.  Could he have been given Beecher's Henry prior to setting out for Ft. Wallace, Beecher having no further use for it or anything else of this world? 

Here is a pic pic of Lt. Beecher and his Henry Rifle.

The officer with the slouch hat is Captain Albert Barnitz, 7th Cavalry and Lt. James M. Bell, 7th Cavalry, seated holding a Spencer carbine.
Is that an Spencer rifle beside Lt. Beecher?
A question Trailrider, where did you read that Pierre Trudeau killed an Indian with a Henry?
Very interesting thread!!!!!

[Trailrider]

Wow! Where did you find that photo?  I'm going to download a copy for my files.

Trudueu's killing the Indian is in the "Beecher Island Annual", as well as Prof. Hayne's book.  (Haynes is repeating what was in the Annual, but adds in parenthesis that he thought it must have been a Spencer.  But I would take the word of the scout in the Annual, who was actually there, plus the fact that Beecher owned, and probably was carrying his Henry when he died at the Island.

I've seen several copies of the Annual for sale at the recent Denver conference of the Order of the Indian Wars.  As I already have a copy I got years ago, I didn't pay too much attention as to who the seller was.  I'd guess if you went to the OIW website you could probably find out who was selling the copies.

The first thirty of the Scouts were hired at Ft. Hays.  As there were companies of the Seventh Cav stationed there, I would suspect that Forsyth might have commandeered Spencer carbines from the 7th.  But when they moved over to Harker, Beecher certainly had access to the "Spencer Repeating Rifles with triangular bayonet", although nobody mentions any bayonets being issued.  If the bayonets were NOT issued, as I suspect they were not, they probably would have proven useful in digging foxholes.

When Beecher was shot, he staggered over to Forsyth and said he was shot in the side and dying.  He then lay down and muttered "My poor mother!"  I never realized what he meant until I read further in his biography.  About two week prior to the expedition, two of Beecher's sisters were drowned in a boating accident!   

As I mentioned in my previous post, Beecher was a "gun nut".  He had collected a Hawken rifle, a Slocum revolver (which I saw and photographed at a gun show, but couldn't afford, as it was offered along with a "field desk" with his name and 3rd INF. stenciled on it.  That was years ago, and the dealer, from whom I had previous obtained the officer's waist belt and holster (sans .36 Savage ring-cocker revolver that the holster fits), retired and had all his own items auctioned off several years ago.  There are other guns mentioned in his letter to his brother, Charles, and the request for Charles to send him a Henry, which obvious he did.

Ain't this fun?!!! 

[Henry4440]

Wow! Where did you find that photo?  I'm going to download a copy for my files.

Trudueu's killing the Indian is in the "Beecher Island Annual", as well as Prof. Hayne's book. 
But I would take the word of the scout in the Annual, who was actually there, plus the fact that Beecher owned, and probably was carrying his Henry when he died at the Island.

Hero of Beecher Island, The Life and Military Career of George A. Forsyth by David Dixon.

Thanks for the information.