Uberti Model P metal?

littlejack · April 10, 2010, 11:21:10 PM

I purchased a new Uberti "Evil Roy" model P a couple of weeks ago. This is my first revolver by Uberti (importer,Cimarron).
I bought a Uberti 1885 Hiwall a couple years back and it was top quality, so that is the reason I decided on the model P by the same maker. The question I have is this. I read the advertisement on their (Cimarrons) model P handguns, and it is stated that Cimarron specifies higher grade material than other importers. I called Cimarron and questioned the person about this and he verified this. He went on to say that the owner of Cimarron DOES specify a higher grade material than the other importers. Does anyone here know any of the specifics involved in the "higher grade material" used in their imports?
By the way, this handgun looks very nice, and shoots extremely accurate. It shoots to point of aim. The action is very smooth and trigger pull is good. The wider front sight and rear sight groove are very nice for fast aquisition. I would recommend this piece to anyone wanting a quality saa. Good shootin to all.
Jack

Fox Creek Kid · April 11, 2010, 10:06:04 PM

Quote from: littlejack on April 10, 2010, 11:21:10 PM
I purchased a new Uberti "Evil Roy" model P a couple of weeks ago. This is my first revolver by Uberti (importer,Cimarron).
I bought a Uberti 1885 Hiwall a couple years back and it was top quality, so that is the reason I decided on the model P by the same maker. The question I have is this. I read the advertisement on their (Cimarrons) model P handguns, and it is stated that Cimarron specifies higher grade material than other importers. I called Cimarron and questioned the person about this and he verified this. He went on to say that the owner of Cimarron DOES specify a higher grade material than the other importers. Does anyone here know any of the specifics involved in the "higher grade material" used in their imports?
By the way, this handgun looks very nice, and shoots extremely accurate. It shoots to point of aim. The action is very smooth and trigger pull is good. The wider front sight and rear sight groove are very nice for fast aquisition. I would recommend this piece to anyone wanting a quality saa. Good shootin to all.
Jack

Here´s the specifics on what you were told:

Blackpowder Burn · April 12, 2010, 06:46:37 AM

Fox Creek Kid,

Why don't you quit beating around the bush and tell us what you really think!

Seriously, I don't know that I believe the Cimarron's are made of better steel, but they are good quality guns - I've owned several in the past and still use a Model 1873 Winchester they sell. I know the gunsmith that does the action work on the Evil Roy's and he does a bang-up job.

That being said, for the same money I now buy USFA Rodeos. I strongly believe in buying American made products whenever possible, and the USFA's are the best quality gun on the market today.

littlejack · April 12, 2010, 11:23:23 AM

I believe both of you fellas gave me honest sincere answers. For that, I am much abliged. I do not plan on any cas. This will be a piece to enjoy and walk with confidence in the woods of Oregon. It is a fine piece and I will enjoy it until my demise. I am sure it will last me the rest of MY life. Nothing like the feel of a fine handgun setting on ones hip, in a nice leather rig. "Just in case."
Thanks for all of the replies.
Jack
PS: FCK, Please, next time don't sugar coat you answer. I hate it when someone beats around the bush.

Old Doc · April 12, 2010, 08:26:34 PM

I do think it is true that Uberti makes guns for several importers to their specifications. Some may require a diferent degree of workmanship than others.

Jefro · April 13, 2010, 07:40:12 AM

Howdy Jack, try the search feature, you may find threads on this topic have been around for years. I own several Cimarrons, Taylor's, and EMF from when they still imported Uberti. IMHO they are all made with the same metal on the same CNC machines. The only difference may be the barrel stamp or something cosmetic like the sights or grips. The Cimarron Evil Roy and Taylor Smoke Wagons are modified Model P/Cattleman, only diference is the sights, grips, hammers, and action work. They are nice guns, I have a set of Smoke Wagons. The Uberti are a fine piece, wtih a little smoothing and a set of springs they are a pleasure to shoot. The main down side to the Uberti for me is the soft screws and ejector rod, once replaced the problem is solved. I recently purchased a pair of USFA Rodeo II satin nickle from Longhunter, very nice.

One day I may get to shoot them

, seems Heather likes them too.

I'm still shooting the same Uberti Model Ps I started with.

Jefro

littlejack · April 14, 2010, 08:23:35 PM

Jefro:
Thanks for our reply. You mentioned the soft screws and the ejector rod. Can you elaborate some on the ejector rod. I haven't had any trouble with mine, but haven't had it long enough, or used it enough to have a problem. I have already however found a problem with the cylinder pin. When trying to remove it to take out the cylinder to clean it, it has developed an upset spot on it from the recoil. It is very difficult to remove. I had to make a tool to tap it out with from under the hammer.
I can't believe that my handgun is the only one with this problem. How many others have had or still have this problem with their Ubertis? Is there an aftermarket pin that is harder that will not upset or is there another fix?
Jack

Jefro · April 19, 2010, 06:50:29 AM

Howdy Jack, the ejector rod breaks where the rod and half moon handle are wielded. Usually happens at the unloading table, handle slips from finger and slams into stop, rod breaks and ejects across table. An ink pin cartridge makes a dandy tool till ya get a replacement. I carry a couple of VTI replacements in my range bag, they also break. I've been told to order a Colt or USFA replacement to stop the breakage. Check the base pin screw for a burr, should not happen from recoil. Belt Mnt. makes the best replacement base pins. Good Luck.
http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/
http://www.beltmountain.com/

Jefro

littlejack · April 19, 2010, 10:39:21 AM

Jefro:
Thank you very much for your reply. I will have to get me a replacement of each. It sound as if you speak with expierience.
Good shootin to ya.
Jack

Dead I · September 11, 2010, 07:18:40 PM

I've got one of those Cimarron '72s and I love it. I think they are good guns. Finish seems nice. All that I've messed with lock up tight. I like'em

Are other I-Tie guns worse? I have no idea. Somehow I can't believe that those guys would make a substandard product...word get around.

Blackpowder Burn · September 12, 2010, 07:45:46 AM

Dead I,

From what I've read, all the Italian manufacturers make a good product. However, some are better than others. It seems that Uberti, Pietta and Pedersoli are the top of the heap. Pietta is now making most of the guns for EMF, Uberti seems to have the highest total sales and Pedersoli is know for their rifles. I've seen very few negative comments on any of these manufacturers. The only negative I've experienced is the soft screws used by Uberti (don't know about the others in this regard). Even with a proper set of gun screwdrivers I've had to replace a couple of screws in my Uberti (Cimarron) 1873 Winchester.

Professor Marvel · September 12, 2010, 04:29:30 PM

Cimmaron relates that they have gone to great length to secure better quality, better "fit and finish" and better "historical accuracy"
from Uberti. Much has been written on the topic. I can find writings from Cimarron and the principles involved. I haven't found any documentation from Uberti or independant sources one way or the other.

No judgement call here, jsut reporting what I can and can't find.

On the topic of

"is Cimmaron's Uberti Model P Steel any different, or better, than that which is provided to other customers of Uberti?"

Well, it is possible. Uberti "could" make special purchases of a different steel just for Cimaron, carefully track them, store them, maintain all the documentation and tracking of each piece.

Uberti could then shut down the line, clear out all other materials, bring in the special "material XYZ" just for Cimarron, start up the line again, and make the run of frames and barrels just for Cimmarron before shutting down and switching back to the "common" or "inferior materials".

Uberti *could* go to the expense and effort to ensure and verify that "material XYZ" which is specified in the contract is used each and every time for Cimarron and only Cimmarron, and track the resulting products just as carefully.

-OR-
the marketing material in which the claims are made could be referring to "better steel" than Uberti's competition, or
"better steel" than used in 1890 or 1950 or 1970....

-OR-
Uberti could be making the frames and barrels all of the same materials, and running a separate "finishing" line for Cimaron with separate inspection & quality control . This is commonly done when a commodity item is being sold to mutliple vendors but Vendor "A" has different spec's than Vendor "B", and is easy to track and deliver.

just thinkin' .... just thinkin'

your humble thinker
prof marvel

Abilene · September 12, 2010, 05:58:11 PM

Cimarron Firearms started specifying better steel than "standard" Uberti products some years ago (barrels and cylinders). They still specify this steel. Not sure, but I think it may have started when they came out with the '72 Opentop, so those guns would hold up to shooting smokeless ammo. This "better" steel came from France and was more expensive. Later that steel started being used in all of their cartridge guns and the barrels of the rifles. (percussion guns use standard 4140). They also specified double polishing before blueing, charcoal blued screws, authentic fonts for markings, hiding proof marks under triggerguards and ejector housings, etc. Plus they sent a number of original Colts and Winchesters to Italy, and in some cases paid for new tooling.

Now, as time marches on, the Italians figure out that even though some of these features cost more, it is more cost effective for them, in some cases, to do the same for all the guns they make instead of having to stock different parts, make different runs, etc. One good example is the coil hand spring. This was one of the "Cowboy Comp" features specified by CFA and originally was only on their guns. Later Uberti started doing it to all the single action frames instead of stocking two different types of frames. So a generic Cattleman now has a coil spring as well as the Model P. How many of these former CFA exclusives are now a part of guns made for other importers? It is hard to tell. The fact is, the other importers do not specify steels, fonts, etc. They just tell Uberti which models they want. If you ask them what type of steel is in their guns, they can not tell you. There are some features that are visiblly different, such as a standard Cattleman still using the hammer with internal safety linkage and a visible wedge piece below the firing pin. And some of the markings, such as the Kings Patent Improvement markings on the barrels of '66's and '73's made for CFA. Many of the other features are certainly shared by all the importers' guns now. Uberti doesn't have a whole lot of loyalty to some of their importers. Guns which were exclusive to certain importers suddenly start being sold to other importers. And then there was the 1876 rifle. After CFA spending years trying to get Uberti to make it and providing originals, when Uberti finally did get to making it, the first shipment was sent to Taylors.

So the bottom line is that Cimarron DOES specify a better grade of steel for cylinders and barrels, among many other features, and they pay more for them, but that doesn't necessarily mean that other importers don't get some of those same features on their guns. That is my understanding.

Dead I · September 12, 2010, 11:12:13 PM

Quote from: Aggie Desperado on September 12, 2010, 07:45:46 AM
Dead I,

From what I've read, all the Italian manufacturers make a good product. However, some are better than others. It seems that Uberti, Pietta and Pedersoli are the top of the heap. Pietta is now making most of the guns for EMF, Uberti seems to have the highest total sales and Pedersoli is know for their rifles. I've seen very few negative comments on any of these manufacturers. The only negative I've experienced is the soft screws used by Uberti (don't know about the others in this regard). Even with a proper set of gun screwdrivers I've had to replace a couple of screws in my Uberti (Cimarron) 1873 Winchester.

I don't know why I thought this, but I heard or picked up somewhere that Uberti and Cimarron were one of the same. Not so?

MJN77 · September 12, 2010, 11:19:34 PM

Uberti makes the guns, cimarron imports the guns.

Professor Marvel · September 12, 2010, 11:58:39 PM

Thank you very much Abilene -
your post clarifies the entire situation and makes complete sense!
clearly other vendors have benefited from Cimarron's efforts, but Cimarron still has better QC and "fit and finish" requirements.

your humble inquisitor
prof marvel

Curley Cole · September 13, 2010, 12:49:56 AM

I wouldn't go so far as to say Cimmaron has "better fit and finish"

I have Taylors, Cim and a whole lot of EMF. The quality on each and every one is pretty near identical. As some one stated the distrubirors can ask for different finishes and other cosemetics...AND when they get here to them, they can even add stuff like custom "Turnbull" cch and plating jobs like EMF.

I do know that EMF checks each and every gun before it goes out, and if it doesn't pass the quality check, they either send it back or more than not, they will sell it on their "dings and dents"...sales.
I have a couple of guns that were sold as dinged....and you would be hard pressed to find the flaw that disqualified.

And as a final note, one of the big differences, is how they treat you and your gun....after the sale, and then again WAY after the sale. I can tell you from personal experince that EMF is hands above all the others in that catagory.
good luck and shootin
curley

Virginia Gentleman · October 05, 2010, 10:13:34 AM

One thing I have done for the soft screw problem is harden them with Kasenit using a MAP gas torch, then polish them with 1000 grit sand paper very lightly and then Nitre Blue them and the problem of soft screw heads disappears and they seem to stay in place longer.