Looking for reloading die for original Spencer rifle

[Bead Swinger]

Try this:
http://www.reelreports.com/store/RAPINE-BULLET-MOLD-160416677737.html If this is real, then the asking price is very good.

Also, I found a little bit of brass from my 1860R:

• 56-56 case made from 50-70, but is too short (head spacing is good, should chamber and eject well)
• 56-56 case made from Starline 56-50 case (Should chamber well, but doesn't eject well)
• 56-56 blank made from a 45-70 case. The rim has been pressed out to fit an original, and cut down and rounded so it should chamber, eject and feed well. Note that the critical distance is from the inside of the rim to the curve on the bullet.

If you're having trouble with the crimp on the 56-56 die , use harder lead. Heeled bullets are notorious for popping out of the case, and the only way I could get my bullets to stay in (besides glue) was to throw more tin into the melt and get the hardness up.

If you want the brass I found, send me your snailmail address offline.

'Good shootin' 

[Four Sixes]

Hi Bead swinger,

the bidding for the rapine mold ended

I found this but not sure if it will work or not after sizing it down to 0.546"
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000152654657

Thanks for the information.

4-sixes

[Trailrider]

Try this:
http://www.reelreports.com/store/RAPINE-BULLET-MOLD-160416677737.html If this is real, then the asking price is very good.

Also, I found a little bit of brass from my 1860R:

• 56-56 case made from 50-70, but is too short (head spacing is good, should chamber and eject well)
• 56-56 case made from Starline 56-50 case (Should chamber well, but doesn't eject well)
• 56-56 blank made from a 45-70 case. The rim has been pressed out to fit an original, and cut down and rounded so it should chamber, eject and feed well. Note that the critical distance is from the inside of the rim to the curve on the bullet.

If you're having trouble with the crimp on the 56-56 die , use harder lead. Heeled bullets are notorious for popping out of the case, and the only way I could get my bullets to stay in (besides glue) was to throw more tin into the melt and get the hardness up.

If you want the brass I found, send me your snailmail address offline.

'Good shootin' 

Interesting thing:  I got bertter accuracy from bullets cast from Lyman #2 mixture than from softer lead/tin!  Also, it was much easier to get the crimp to hold.

[Bead Swinger]

I think the problem you'll have is that the .546 will go great down the barrel, but will not go into the case unless you machine a heel onto it. And definitely harder is better. The heel is somewhere around .512

Have you tried calling Rapine about making up a mold?

[Four Sixes]

No luck on calling Rapine

I don't know what to do with the 50 buffalo arms 56-56 brass that I had ordered since they won't fit into my spencer (rim is too thick)...The Buffalo arms won't even call me back after I left them a message.

Anyone know how to trim the rim of 56-56 brass down by hand? I wish I have a lathe and drill press and gunsmithing tools then I could make all kinds of good stuffs myself (Dear Santa....I will be a very good boy this year!...hahaha )

Ummm....will the .54 cal ring-tail bullet works if I only use it as a single shot, not loading it in the magazine tube. (Crazy idea)

4-Sixes

[Hambone]

4-Sixes

Did anyone measure the thickness of the base on their 56-56 brass and see if it matched yours?
I am assuming you are saying that the brass goes all the way into the chamber but the base is too thick.

Is it possible that the block that was put in your gun when it was converted from rimfire wasn't made right and that is why the Buffalo Arms brass doesn't fit.

Hambone

[Four Sixes]

Hi Hambone,

I installed the block myself so that it is possible that I may have not install it correctly. Here is the pictures of the 56-56 brass in the chamber. As noted in the picture, the rim is outside the chamber just enough in preventing the closing of the center fire block.
Any suggestion in resolving it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.





                                                          (Photos re-posted by Two Flints)

4-Sixes.

[Herbert]

If the action cycles smoothly when emty you have instaled it properly,that cass seems to be out a long way ,can you measure the reabate for the rim ,even a thick rim should fit ,if posible do a chamber cast,that will give you all the measurments you need, but for starters try sanding the cass just in front of the rim and see weather this inproves fit ,some 50-70 brass can be slitly over size here compared to the 56-56 chamber demitions

[Four Sixes]

If the action cycles smoothly when emty you have instaled it properly,that cass seems to be out a long way ,can you measure the reabate for the rim ,even a thick rim should fit ,if posible do a chamber cast,that will give you all the measurments you need, but for starters try sanding the cass just in front of the rim and see weather this inproves fit ,some 50-70 brass can be slitly over size here compared to the 56-56 chamber demitions

Hi Herbert,

the rim of the 56-56 brass is 0.062" (a bit bigger than the 56-50 rim measured at 0.057"). Will try to trim down the 56-56 rim to see if it will fit. (If it doesn't fit, must quit....LOL...OJ lawyer)
Hasn't done any chamber cast before....will have to learn it someday.

4-Sixes

[Hambone]

4-Sixes

Here is something I would suggest you try. Lift up the cartridge keeper lever and insert a piece of brass into the chamber backwards and see if the rim goes in flush with the edge of the chamber. If not then the rim is probably too thick.

If it does go in flush then the brass is probably too long. 56-56 brass should be about .875 long, rim .645 diameter and the rest of the case about .559 diameter since it is a straight wall case. 56-50 brass would fit even though it is too long because it is tapered down to.543 on the bullet end. If you have to trim the case down in length trim slowly because your chamber could be slightly different.

Hambone

[Jobe Holiday]

Just a quick note to let everyone know....The Rapine Bullet Mould Mfg. Co., of East Greenville, PA has closed it's doors. After making countless bullet moulds for the shooting community Ellsworth Rapine has retired and is out of business.

JH

[Arizona Trooper]

One other thing to check for. If your Spencer has been dry fired a lot, the firing pin/slide can raise quite a dent on the side of the chamber. That can prevent complete chambering any round, no matter what the rim dimensions. I have fixed at least two Spencers with this problem. It's not hard to remove the dent using needle files.

[Glenn]

It didn't look like anyone addressed the issue of safety.  Just for the record, I shoot an original and I'm sure many others here do as well, so they are safe, at least with black powder (and lots of fun).  The 56-56 is a bit more of a challenge but it is the original.  I've spotted a Wilder's rifle, if I can snag it, you can bet I'll shoot it!

[Four Sixes]

One other thing to check for. If your Spencer has been dry fired a lot, the firing pin/slide can raise quite a dent on the side of the chamber. That can prevent complete chambering any round, no matter what the rim dimensions. I have fixed at least two Spencers with this problem. It's not hard to remove the dent using needle files.

Thanks for the note Arizona Trooper. The chamber appears to be in good order. No dent.
I slowly filed down a 56-56 case rim by hand using a small hobby file and check offen until it fits into the chamber and close the breech completely. It does. At least one down and 49 more brass cases to go. 

4-sixes

[Herbert]

can you get measurments of other 50-70 rims,made by difrent makers or maybe othes could post thickneses  of difrent brands that fit in there rifles 56-50  & 56-56 rim thickness was the same in original cartriges ,i will start Bertrum Brass 50-70 cass modified to fit in a original 56-50 carbine,rim thikness 0.065 ,when proper thikness is worked out and compared to youse Buffalow Arms casses can be checked to see if they are the right thickness if they are not i am sure they would fix the problem ,i just went back and looked at your earler post stating the difrence in rim thickness of the 50-70 brass and the starline 56-50 brass was 0.005 to me your photos look lick the cass is out further than this sugesting your rim diameter is to large, try puting a cass in the chuck of a drill and slitly reduce the diameter,i think this may fix the fit if not you can reduce the thickness whith a safe edge file on the front of the rim by turning in the cuck not the best way but sure beats slowly doing it by hand,another thort looking at original rimfier cartriges they have a radious on the edges of rim ,try puting a slight bevell on the leading edge of the rim and see weater this seats the cartrige deeper if this works it will save you a lot of work

[Trailrider]

   Sad to hear that Ray Rapine has retired.  He was most helpful to me about 20 years ago in designing moulds for the .56-56 Spencer.  I wish him the best in his leisure years.

[Four Sixes]

Can anyone post a picture of the cast rapine heeled bullet and its dimension? Thinking of ordering a custom make bullet mold. Thanks.

4-Sixes

[Two Flints]

Hi Four Sixes,

Does this link help you at all?  Thought I'd give it a try for you.

Two Flints

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=23777.0

[Four Sixes]

Thanks Two Flints.

I should have mentioned it is for the 56-56 cal. Sorry about that. Contact NEI for making a custom mold but they need the heeled size of the 56-56 bullet and other dimension information.

BTW...anyone had any trouble in casting 515 bullet from the modified Lee mold. I am getting irregular shape at the base (not a full circle). not sure why?

4-Sixes

(PS: found this on the web and not sure if it is the right dimension for 56-56 cal...please comment, thanks)

[Bead Swinger]

Two Flints
Do you still have any of those bullets I cast for you? NEI or someone else could copy them. Does anyone have a 535380 who would be willing to send a few bullets to Four Sixes for getting a mold made?  The issue with the bullet is the Ogive