First time out for me w/my "new" Spencer Carbine

[Grogan]

Here in western Orygun we got 4 days of glorious SUNNY weather this past week.

(for those who've never been here before, this means I could take off my U-Boat Commander's hat for a couple of days  )

I took advantage of this by working on my Spencer Carbine "project" which meant digging through the "goodies" that had arrived from the previous owner, fishing out a box of Starline brass and the Dies.

I'd already cast up a bunch of 350g bullits using the Rapine mould supplied a couple of weeks ago, during the last bout of sunny weather.

After sizing/lubing some 600g bullets for the big Sharps, I adjusted the sizer to see how it would work with the tiny little .50 cal. pills.  Hmm...that works pretty well.

O.k. get these dies set up to work on my press...pretty easy too.

Now play with the powder charge and see what's going to fit and what's going to work.

It looked like, using ~0.1" compression I could fit 27.0g of GOEX "Ctg." in there pretty comfortably.

I only loaded up a single box of ammo, better take it out and test it.



I headed over to a friend's farm nearby so I didn't have to make the 25 mile trip to my club's range.

This limited us to shooting at a target setup against the bank of a little pond there, that meant 50 yd. shooting only.

Both my galfriend, Miss Lil, and I tried it out.

Load up 7 rounds, no problem.



Cycle the action...Hmm...not quite as smooth as the action on the Henry, but probably with these RNFP bullets being different than the pointy ones originally designed to work with this setup, I guess that's understandable?  Just operate the Lever FAST and it seems to work just fine.

So then to try shooting this little carbine...not bad, nice trigger on mine (worked over by the N-SSA Target Shooting competitor who was the previous owner)



The 1st shot was "right in there" on a 10" Paper Plate target Offhand.

After that EVERY subsequent shot failed to fire on the 1st strike of the Hammer.  

I had loaded these ctg.s using Russian "Wolf" brand Magnum Lg. Pistol Primers...wonder if that had anything to do with it?  

In any case further work will be needed to get the reliability up to where it needs to be.

My next step is to prime up some additional sample cases using other Mfg's Primers and do a test to see if it's the hardness of the Ruskie Primers, or perhaps a lightened Hammer Spring from the Trigger Job that's causing light strikes?

Each and every successive shot fired either on the 2nd or 3rd strike.  (A little disconcerting)

Anyway, here's the results of the 1st magazine of 56-50s that I've shot.  These were all casually shot Offhand.  I'm sure that they could all probably be held to ~2" or better off a bench.

After this picture was taken, Miss Lil threw a few more into the center plate and another one just outside of it.

[Two Flints]

Hi Grogan,

Thanks for posting your first experience with your Spencer   Nicely done Not sure about the pistol primers, but I'll let the SSS loading experts chime in with their opinions.

Thanks again for the thread!

Two Flints

[Grogan]

Hmm...maybe that was it?!! 

Right before priming, I measured the depth of a .45-70's Primer Pocket, then the depth of the 56-50 Spencer's.

The Spencers was shallower, so I thought, "Aha, Pistol Primer!" (ala .44-40, a rifle ctg. case)

So that's what went in.

Do some load these with LR Primers? 

Just checkin...   (if that's what you meant?)

[Two Flints]

Hi Grogan,

Lots of opinions on which primer to use, as discussed in this thread:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,9579.0.html

I guess you have to do the trial and error routine to see what works for you!  Check out the SORI Thread here:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,14075.0.html

and look at the Loading links for more information. 

Two Flints

[Grogan]

O.k., Two Flints,

I'll go back and very CAREFULLY measure/check my Primer Pocket depth on my Starline brass.

There are proper SAAMI dimensions on things like Primer Pockets and Primer height.  Starline knows them as well as anybody and I'm sure they adhere to them closely.

There should be only ONE correct size Primer for Starline's brass and it shouldn't be a matter of "take your pick".

[Herbert]

check to see if the screws for the firing pin slide are tight if they are loose this will cause misfires, locktight is a good idear hear, i get best acuracy with pistol primers ,wolf are the hardest of the PP folowed by CCI ,you will inprove feeding by taking .02 of the top of the cam

[Grogan]

Thanks for the tips Herbert.

I'll check those out.

[.56/50 Iron]

No need to use rifle primers in the .56/50 with black powder. I use Remington 2 1/2 or CCI 300 Large pistol primers now. I also got mis-fires to start with. ALL the screws in my Spencer were untightened when I got it including the two holding the striker part of the firing mechanism in place. I Loctited those. Also, the lock screws were loose on the inside of the plate and I tightened those. Also, too much oil in the firing pin area and that cushioned the firing pin strike. Lots of possibilities. Thighten the screws up first. Don't kid yourself on there being only 'one' primer! All will fit, the large pistol primers give the best accuracy . No misfires since I tightened things up. Good luck!
.56/50 Iron

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pard,
I'm not familiar with Starline .56-50 Spencer brass' primer pocket dimensions, BUT I would imaging they are correct for RIFLE cartridges.  That being said, Large Rifle Primers are .009" Max. LONGER than Large Pistol Primers!  In .44-40, for example, dispite being a rifle cartridge, the current spec call for Large Pistol Primers.  Using Large Rifle primers in .44-40 or .44 Magnum can lead to high primers, causing all sorts of problems!  The reverse will be true in cartridge meant to use Large Rifle Primers.  Using Pistol caps in them may cause the exact problems you describe.  (Incidentally, the same is NOT true for Small Pistol or Small Rifle primers...they have the SAME lengths.      Go figure!)

Hope this helps!

[French Jack]

I use Federal Magnum Large Rifle Primers in my 56-50.  Works better with the Black Powder.  The Starline brass is pocketed for the LR primer.

[Grogan]

I use Federal Magnum Large Rifle Primers in my 56-50.  Works better with the Black Powder.  The Starline brass is pocketed for the LR primer.

Yep, so I found out...

Last night, after getting home from work, I remembered, "Oh yeah, there's something I've gotta check on."

I went out, grabbed my calipers, a nice fresh Starline 56-50 case, and also a couple of other cases a new .44-40 plus a Starline .44 Colt and also the .45-70 case I'd measured earlier.

Again I measured the 56-50 case as being different from the .45-70.  But then I came up with different readings on the .44-40 and the .44 Colt as well.  "What's going on with this?!!"

I checked more closely and discovered that there was a little step on the Depth Bar on my Caliper and it was causing me to get inconsistent readings.  Yikes!

So I grabbed a Lg Rifle Primer and tried seating it with my RCBS Hand Priming Tool in the 56-50 case and it seated just fine.  

One thing that I think threw me off was that earlier, when I used the same RCBS Tool it ONLY seated my Lg Pistol Primers to about that same depth (it wouldn't seat them deeper) the depth looked "just right" using the shorter Primers.  Now I know differently.

Then, a little later, while on Starline's website I happened to notice that it stated right there: "Lg Rifle Primer"...Duh!

So, now "I've got it"; know the right size Primers to use.  (And I'll bet this makes the missfire problem go away?)

[Herbert]

whith the spencer when reloading i always double check the primer seating by yousing the primer arm in the press,whith large pistol primers  seated properly there is now way a flat nose bullet can touch the primer of the cartrige ahead of it in the magizine,i also started out using fedral large magnam primers but found these were enlarging the flash hole,(very bad for consistant egnition,therefore acuracy)i then got some new cases and experimented whith difrent primers ,i found that LPP gave the best acuracy,i have fired over 5000 rounds whith the LPP and have had no trouble whith cratering around the firing pin,also dont enlarge the flash hole in the casses ,a freind did this and acuracy whent out the window,unseated primers will cause misfiers but in th armi sports spencer 90% of misfiers are caused by the firing slide screws being loose

[Grogan]

My ONLY ".50 Cal." priming setup is using one of the RCBS Hand Priming Tools (because my trusty LEE Hand Priming Tool won't accept, and doesn't have .50 cal. Shell Holders  )

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Grogan;  Chapparal .45-75 cases don't fit the LEE hand priming tool either.  I had to replace the large primer arm for my old RCBS Junior press. 

Thats all right.  We have the technology, and the Vays und Means.

[Grogan]

Grogan;  Chapparal .45-75 cases don't fit the LEE hand priming tool either.  I had to replace the large primer arm for my old RCBS Junior press. 

Thats all right.  We have the technology, and the Vays und Means.

Yeah, this one's (actually) easy...

My next one's the European Rolling Block in 11.7x44R 

Now that one's going to be trickier! 

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Grogan;  11.7 X 44R is really pretty easy.

I use Lyman .50-70 dies and Starline brass.  I you have a Swedish roller you might have to narrow the rims a bit to fit the chamber.  The nominal length is 20 'thou shorter, but I'm no sure whether it is critical or not, but I did shorten them.

The correct bullet weight is 350 gr. but the diameter varies with the tolerances of the particular barrel.  I got the Lyman 515139 mould from Midsouth.  The grooves are a bit skimpy so you might want to look for a bullet carrying more lube.  They dropped at .518 and I shoot them as-cast, lubed by hand.  75 to 80 grains of Goex FFg works, but I went to Pyrodex "cartridge" cause I had some and my darkened bore is easier to clean.

My Husqvarna underlever Cape gun is chambered a lot tighter so I make cases from .348 and size the bullets to .515.

(Talk about a thread Hijack! )

For more info on Swedish sporting arms;

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?50-Swedish-Civilian-amp-Sporting-Firearms