Wanted !

[Judge Roy Bean]

Howdy the camp, can anyone help me fined a souce of .44 conical bulletts for a Colt's 1860 Army. I want to make some paper cartrigese the only way to load these I am led to beleave. Is there any other way of molding them other than the brass molds that you get from Italy. I have made some from round ball but want try conical. Thanks for any help.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Judge,

What is the chamber and barrel size on your 1860s?  I have a brace of Pietta 1860s that I have Kirst Konverter cylinders for.  I've been shooting Cowboy 45 Special brass stuffed with 1.3cc of FFFg under either J/P 45-200s or EPP-UG 150s, both Big Lube®LLC designs.  For the C&B cylinders I've been loading either the little EPP-UGs or the new DD/PUK/ROA-II 210 grain Big Lube®LLC bullets.  The new ROA-II design has a dual rebate base and should be able to be lube sized to fit your 1860s fine.  You can see it on my web site, http://www.biglube.com

Let me know if this helps.

DD-DLoS

[Flint]

You can make paper cartridges with roundballs, just roll them into the paper, the conical would be the same.  The ball, round or conical is inside the paper.

[Judge Roy Bean]

Thank you both for your replys, what Iam looking for are a few conical bulletts like the ones that come from a mold in acased set.
I have already made some paper cartriges but want to try some conicals,as most pre made paper cartridges were pointed heads.
They are a Colt 2nd gen and a Uberti both 1860's .454 ball shoots well in both.

[44caliberkid]

Dixie Gun Works used to have one but I can't find it on the website (their search function sucks) and can't presently locate my catalog.   What about the Lee 44 conical for cap and ball revolvers?
Gad Custom Cartridges has 44 conical cap and ball bullets.

[Montana Slim]

I had one of the old Italian molds like you'd find in a cased set. The conical it cast was a good quality bullet and correct type for the Colt. I think it's buried in somewhere in my Pa's basement (??).

Loading a period-correct conical into a modern reproduction isn't an easy task. I have Pietta, Uberti and ASM 1860s.
There is likely to be difficulty fitting the bullet into the chamber & then rotating under the rammer. Generally, the barrel has too much metal around the arbor hole to allow the bullet to pass, and/or the bullet "cutout" is not large enogh. Years ago I modified my ASM by grinding the frame to allow loading, and it worked ok.

Since that time, I haven't fooled around with conicals in my 1860s.....but I find my 3rd Model Dragoon to be fun with 30-40 gr. of 3F under a 200 grain semi-wadcutter (pure lead). Easy to load as well.

Regards,
Slim

[Judge Roy Bean]

Thank you all for all this great info, I have ordered a Lee #90382 mold to see how they shoot,also a pard is going to use his brass mold to see how they come out as he has had it for about 20 years but never used it. Will report back as to the outcome of the paper cartriges.

[Noz]

Local feeling is that the conicals are a waste of time. They are a pain to load straight(they tend to lean to one side or the other)and are generally not as accurate as the round balls.

[Montana Slim]

My experience with the 200 grain, original-style bullet was improved accuracy at longer range, say 60-75 yds. A proper bullet is a heel-base type. The reduced diameter fits well into the chamber when seated. The trick is whether the bullet will (1) fit down in the cylinder to this shoulder (2) if there is clearance to rotate squarely under the rammer. If these conditions are met, there is no trouble loading them correctly. If you attempt to load them into paper cartridges, you'll find the "clearance" issue I raise as being even more acute 

Too bad I don't have the mold, I'd cast a handful for ya to try.

Regards,
Slim

[Dick Dastardly]

The rebate/heal bullet for the 1860s is alive and well.

DD-DLoS

[Deadguy]

Does the new DD-PUK ROA have even a chance of fitting through the loading window in the frame of a Pietta 1860?  I know there was no way the original DD-ROA can fit through there.  Well, thanks to the puny factory chambers in them Piettas (as small as .440"), the original DD-ROA would not even load nicely unless you reamed out the chambers to proper size (which I do on my revolvers anyway) AND used a separate cylinder loading press.

[Dick Dastardly]

With the flat nose, it has a chance to fit in the frame aperture but better results would be had with a separate cylinder loading stand.  On ROAs they fit fine.

DD-DLoS

[Deadguy]

Ok.  Those Pietta 1860's have such a tiny loading window that the only bullets I've been able to fit in them is a round ball, and that's why I picked up the Tower O' Power.  Now I'm not limited to round ball in the 1860's, and everything else loads up easier and faster as well.

[Drayton Calhoun]

Oddly enough, I have used the brass molds for .44, .36 and .31 conicals and the accuracy wasn't too bad. The heel also helps with the paper thickness during loading. Now for the bad news. The cartridges I have loaded only held a bit less than 25 gr.

[Percussion Pete]

Taking the cylinder out will be the easiest way to load it, but did they do that in the old days? I wouldn't think so.

[Dick Dastardly]

I do believe that the EPP-UG rebate/heal bullet would fit nicely under the frame of an 1860 Army.  That might be a better choice than the DD/PUK/ROA-II.

DD-DLoS

[Drayton Calhoun]

The only real problem I ever had with the brass molds is that if they are not smoked, they tend to wrinkle somewhat. Not to mention how hot the handles get and the sprue cutter bends rather easily on the Walker mold.