Shooting from the hip

kflach · February 24, 2010, 03:37:37 PM

I would imagine that the stances people used back in our period isn't documented but I'm curious if NCOWS ever allows shooting from the hip. I have a couple of friends who were apparently required to do so for their concealed carry license (not from Texas) so I figured there must be some practical benefit to shooting like that - at least on some occasions. I thought it might be interesting to set up one stage where one of the pistol targets was a little closer than normal and you had to shoot it from the hip.

I'm not sure how it would be done since we don't do quick draws (maybe the last of the 5 pistol targets so that the gun is already drawn?

).

I have no desire to get all SASS speedy but I'm just curious whether I could hit a target from that kind of stance.

Is this something that's been tried? Is there a safety issue that would have to be addressed that I haven't thought of?

Books OToole · February 24, 2010, 03:41:00 PM

We had a stage at the National Match at Hooten Old town, that required hip shooting your rifle.

OCB nailed six out of six.

Books

Cole Bluesteele · February 24, 2010, 03:47:45 PM

Don't look to it anytime soon at the Ten Horns matches.

Cole

Dutch Limbach · February 24, 2010, 04:46:40 PM

We've done it a few times at GLFMC. Personally, I'm against hip shooting. It kind of conflicts with the basic rule of Firearms Safety; "Be sure of your target and what's behind it." IMO

The last time I shot a stage that called for shooting from the hip I took the procedural, which is 20 seconds at GLFMC monthly shoots, and shot normally. Even with the 20 second penalty I won the stage easily, which is something I don't often do with guys like Irish Dave, Peevine, Deadeye Dave, G. W., Fall Creek Sam, and several others hanging around there.

Ottawa Creek Bill · February 24, 2010, 05:26:52 PM

Quote from: Books OToole on February 24, 2010, 03:41:00 PM
We had a stage at the National Match at Hooten Old town, that required hip shooting your rifle.

OCB nailed six out of six.

Books

I didn't know rifles had hips?

OCB

Irish Dave · February 24, 2010, 06:43:38 PM

IMHO, generally a very bad idea anywhere ...for the reasons Dutch mentioned.
Would be enormously stupid at Evansville, where the back berm is relatively low and there are people on the other side.

Generally speaking, I personally do not favor any scenario that requires folks to shoot in any manner other than what they are accustomed to. These are firearms, after all, and requiring folks to shoot in a manner that is not normal for them is simply begging for disaster, in my view.

Just an opinion...

Dutch Limbach · February 24, 2010, 07:29:50 PM

"In all my life as a frontier police officer, I did not know a really proficient gunfighter who had anything but contempt for the gun-fanner, or the man who literally shot from the hip. In later years I read a great deal about this type of gunplay, supposedly employed by men noted for skill with a forty-five.

From personal experience and numerous six-gun battles which I witnessed, I can only support the opinion advanced by the men who gave me my most valuable instruction in fast and accurate shooting, which was that the gun-fanner and hip-shooter stood small chance to live against a man who, as old Jack Gallagher always put it, took his time and pulled the trigger once."

Wyatt Earp

(Bold text placed in the quote by me for emphasis.)

Texas Lawdog · February 24, 2010, 07:45:59 PM

I wasn't ever very good with my Mattel ShootnShell Fanner 50 either.

Pancho Peacemaker · February 24, 2010, 08:48:15 PM

Hip shooting is a very bad idea for competitive shooters.

Shooting a firearm from an undisciplined and unsighted stance is an easy way for a round to go over a berm or somewhere else it's not supposed to.

All we need is for ONE stray round to cause an injury or near injury and our friendly sport will become front page fodder for the anti-firearm movement.

There is a "movement" over in the SASS circles to recognize a new class that shoots from the hip (rifle, pistol, & shotgun). For safety's sake, I really hope the power's that be over there fall on the side of caution and pull the reins hard on this one.

lethal larry · February 25, 2010, 09:24:42 AM

Yeah, Pancho. It is called the "Outlaw Class" by the few clubs that do have it. It is not a recognized SASS category. And yes, I agree that it would only take one errant bullet hurting someone to case a firestorm from the gun-grabbers to go ballistic.

Ten Wolves Fiveshooter · February 25, 2010, 10:49:52 AM

It would be safe if shot with waxed bullets, but that's the only way to safely do it, I use to shoot in fast draw comp. years ago, and we had a good time, and became very proficient shooting from the hip, if you had a side gun for this use, and didn't mine getting a little wax in the barrel, it could be a lot of fun, and safe to do so, IMHO I think the 1873 SAA is the best all around natural pointing handgun ever made, along with several of the black powder models and lends its self to point and shoot/ instinct shooting very well, the key here is removing the lead bullets and replacing them with wax.

tEN wOLVES

Books OToole · February 25, 2010, 12:38:25 PM

The Hooten Old Town Range is one of the few that I have shot at, that it was safe to shoot from the hip.
Each stage was bermed on the sides and the back stop was a small mountain.

It definately will not be allowed at the Westside Sportmans Club.

Books

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · February 25, 2010, 01:28:38 PM

I think Ten Wolves' suggestion is a great one.

It calls out for a staged spare range gun, loaded with wax ammo by the Posse RO.

kflach · February 25, 2010, 01:59:35 PM

From the responses to all this, it sounds like my friends who had to shoot from the hip must have shot at some kind of indoor range.

Texas Lawdog · February 25, 2010, 03:33:49 PM

Kevin, During our Firearms Quals every six months, certain stages were shot from the hip.

kflach · February 25, 2010, 03:39:05 PM

TL, I asked the original question based on the premise that if shooting from the hips is part of the qualification process, it must be considered a 'safe' practice. However, it appears from the responses to this thread that "safe" is relative to the shooting environment and that's why we don't do it at many of our ranges.

I'm learning...

Texas Lawdog · February 25, 2010, 04:12:06 PM

The stages involved drawing the weapon and firing either two rounds, three rounds, or 6 rounds and then reholster.

Irish Dave · February 25, 2010, 04:17:06 PM

TL:

In my experience, these "hip" stages for LEO qualifications are usually at the 3-5 yard mark and where the berm is usually 1) very tall and 2) Very close to the back of the targets.

Is that the case where you're talking about?

Texas Lawdog · February 25, 2010, 04:30:29 PM

Yessir!

Pancho Peacemaker · February 25, 2010, 04:43:26 PM

Quote from: Texas Lawdog on February 25, 2010, 04:12:06 PM
The stages involved drawing the weapon and firing either two rounds, three rounds, or 6 rounds and then reholster.

LEO "life & death" qualification scenarios are a much different situation. I have friends who are cops and they do practice these "life & death" drills and also pray they never need to use that skill. Again, they are in a controlled environment with shooters and instructors who are equally trained, firing on a close range target with backing that is intended for unsighted fire.

This type of fast draw & hip fire is a potential disaster in a recreational shooting enviroment such as ours. We do have experienced shooters who are very safe & very likely could control unsighted small arms fire. We also have newbies that are just as likely to put a hole in their boot or through the front brim of their hat.