Business Related question - How do you figure your price??

[outrider]

Dalton,

I have done what Cutter has suggested..I have a protfoilio book that is full of photos of the things I have made.  I also carry around one of those zip drives with all the photos on it..If I am near a puter I can show off my stuff...by the way I photograph all my things even if it is a duplicate....

[willygene]

it took me awhile to figure out what to charge but the best i have come up with after 30 years is 25 an hour 2 hour min and 3 times the actual cost of the materials used in your project. ie the leather for a belt and holster lined and tooled with 24 loops .leather approx 30 dollars x 3 = 90  time to tool and assemble 5 hours x 25per=125 + 90 =215 and at the price of good leather now 4 times the cost would not be out of the ball park.

[TN Mongo]

Outrider,

Are you coming to the shoot this weekend?  I'm planning on shooting in the long range side match too.

[Don Nix]

Years ago  I got a formula from a leather ditributor that gave the best way to figure your leather costs.
Simply take your side of leather when it arrives and weigh it. then add up the cost of the lleather plus shipping. Then divide the weight of the leather by the cost and that will give you the cost per pound.
When you begin a project then take the amount of leather used for the project and weigh it. If you know the cost per pound then you will know exactly how much you have in the leather. You can either  double or triple your material costs. Then add say $25 per hour for labor.
In my  shop I always used to have a $50 minimum for saddle or leather repair. Then I had a set list of items that I charged flat rate such as cleaning and oiling. Horn repair stirrup leathers etc.

[Dalton Masterson]

Thanks for the good tips all of you. I am working on a base line, and all I can say is wow, the prices sure do vary maker to maker.

It seems with my prices in the past, I would just throw a price out there, and it stuck.
Thanks again.
DM

[Rube Burrows]

When you get it figured out Dalton I would sure be interested in another one of your rigs. 

[northwestgrizzly]

.....I would sure be interested in another one of your rigs. 

I'm about as fidgety as schoolboy on a fine spring day waiting for school to let out so's I can go fishing!!! Dalton is working on my first rig and I'm doing the Christmas Day dance, no fault of his....I'm just an impatient cuss!!!!!! Hehehehehe   

[JD Alan]

NWG if Dalton is building you a rig you are going to have a fine looking one no doubt. What are you having him make? What style, color, etc? Carved or stamped? I'm nosey! Is this for CAS or a field rig? If it's a CAS rig cross draw or both strong side? What sort of guns will  you be using with it? 

Dalton is one of my favorite Pards on this forum. He's the one who steered me this way when I was wandering around the SASS site looking for leather info. Not only that, he's always been very helpful. Lots of guys are but he was the first for me.

Dalton, no charge for the plug

[Slowhand Bob]

Not a great philosophy for the budding business man in leather craft BUT there is a harsh reality to starting out, your work will be appraised considerably lower than an established name maker.  I have heard several art brokers speak on formulas for the aspiring or unknown artists (other medias) and as unfair as it might seem, price is not based on the value we place on our product but what potential customers will be willing to pay.  Almost all commercial business factors in a starting salary and you will likely need to think in these terms in the beginning.  It has always been advised that the small start up buisiness be prepared to have capitol for up to three years of non profit. 

I have seen people who are real artists with the swivel knife and stamps produce truly beautiful leather items, all hand work, and yet, their price in a localized market would bring much less than a well known maker brand gets for a manufactured version of the item.  I would never recommend one give up their day job while seeking fame and fortune in the arts or crafts industry.  The small business has worked for a few but has destroyed many more along the way.  In my life experience (what I have seen), I would say that in most of these endeavors it will be more important to be a good business man than a great leather worker. 

[Rube Burrows]

Well can I show mine that DM made me a while back? I have showed it before somewhere else on here but since others are asking......

Here is my custom rig he done up for my 1851s. I contacted him about doing a rig that had more of an exposed trigger guard. I like the slim jim style but wanted the trigger to be more exposed. Im also not a flashy guy so I wanted something in a plain dark brown.

This is what he done for me. I love it.

[JD Alan]

Sweet rig! That meander stamp looks great. Actually everything looks great!

[Dalton Masterson]

Thanks guys.
If I could do those 51 holsters again, I wouldnt have that tab below the trigger guard, and would just take the welt straight up. BUT, I am glad you like it Rube (Joey).
When I get caught up, I will get ahold of you.

JD, if you look close at the meander, each one is struck twice. The first one is with the stamp flat, the second time is with it rocked forward, to make the center deeper. Gives a little more depth and dimension to it I think.
DM

[northwestgrizzly]

NWG if Dalton is building you a rig you are going to have a fine looking one no doubt. What are you having him make? What style, color, etc? Carved or stamped? I'm nosey! Is this for CAS or a field rig? If it's a CAS rig cross draw or both strong side? What sort of guns will  you be using with it?   

JD, similar to these that he made including some similar carving... but with more of this color scheme...

Its a CAS'ish rig, right side strong with a right side cross draw. I am currently using New Ruger Vaq and Taurus gaucho SAA 5.5"barrel and I can't wait!!!!

Well can I show mine that DM made me a while back? I have showed it before somewhere else on here but since others are asking......

Here is my custom rig he done up for my 1851s. I contacted him about doing a rig that had more of an exposed trigger guard. I like the slim jim style but wanted the trigger to be more exposed. Im also not a flashy guy so I wanted something in a plain dark brown.

This is what he done for me. I love it.

Those are simply beautiful!!!! I love the pistols also...I am wanting a set of those Dragoons something fierce!

[Rube Burrows]

Thanks guys.
If I could do those 51 holsters again, I wouldnt have that tab below the trigger guard, and would just take the welt straight up. BUT, I am glad you like it Rube (Joey).
When I get caught up, I will get ahold of you.

JD, if you look close at the meander, each one is struck twice. The first one is with the stamp flat, the second time is with it rocked forward, to make the center deeper. Gives a little more depth and dimension to it I think.
DM

I do like them. I think having the part below the trigger guard gives it some nice curves. I would not change a thing on them really. They are simple and plain....both of which I like and think my persona calls for. Rube Burrows came from rural Alabama. By the looks of his hat when he was killed....I think he would not have been a very flashy guy either.

I look forward to hearing from you DM when you get caught up.

[Gun Butcher]

Beautiful rig Dalton,you should show us more of your stuff.

[ChuckBurrows]

Not a great philosophy for the budding business man in leather craft BUT there is a harsh reality to starting out, your work will be appraised considerably lower than an established name maker.  I have heard several art brokers speak on formulas for the aspiring or unknown artists (other medias) and as unfair as it might seem, price is not based on the value we place on our product but what potential customers will be willing to pay.  Almost all commercial business factors in a starting salary and you will likely need to think in these terms in the beginning.  It has always been advised that the small start up business be prepared to have capitol for up to three years of non profit.  

I have seen people who are real artists with the swivel knife and stamps produce truly beautiful leather items, all hand work, and yet, their price in a localized market would bring much less than a well known maker brand gets for a manufactured version of the item.  I would never recommend one give up their day job while seeking fame and fortune in the arts or crafts industry.  The small business has worked for a few but has destroyed many more along the way.  In my life experience (what I have seen), I would say that in most of these endeavors it will be more important to be a good business man than a great leather worker.  

For those interested in doing "this" as a business read again and again.
FWIW - I've been in business for myself on and off for 35+ years and for about 15 years I worked as a small business admin/consultant, but please still take what I say with the proverbial grain of salt......

1) Take a business course and then hire a CPA or other bona fide business admin type to help setup your business model....
2) Basing your cost to profit ratio on an hours plus cost basis can be a start, but is not always the best model - i.e. I do beadwork - using the cost plus basis alone would in some cases overcharge the customer but in others way under charge due to other factors (i.e name recognition)
3) If doing this as a business take into consideration your admin costs - in most cases a home based business will take 40-45% of your time (or money) just with admin - i.e. phone calls, bookkeeping. ordering materials, etc. - Yes there are exceptions but this is a good average based on the stats
4) The name factor is/can be big factor, so as noted above one way to keep your prices current is to look at those with a similar name factor as well as similar quality........using myself as an example, in certain circles my price can/will be much higher than lesser known folks with equal or even better quality
5) DO NOT undercharge - this is one of the most common mistakes that "amateurs" (simply a word for non-professionals - has nothing to do with quality) make, especially when/if considering turning pro. No matter whether a pro or amateur, your time is Worth something...........
6) Charge what the market will bear - an old adage but still a good one - if your selling everything out ASAP you may be too low - if you're not selling then your prices may be too high

FWIW - Due to a recent order for several pieces, I am currently 18 months back ordered, a position which can be both bad and good  - in my case good, but it's still a business and not a hobby (an enviable position in some ways - one which if I was rich I would be in).........

[Slowhand Bob]

We just can not forget that it is a labor of love more so than one of fame and fortune for most of us.  If the custom end of leather craft is ones goal you must also like dealing with people and this can sometimes be very time consuming.  This is why a truly custom leather craftsman must charge higher for his product, every piece is a work unto itself and must combine your artistic ability with the customers unique and individual desire. 

As I have stated on here before, Cabellas, Mexico or even several of the popular name brand suppliers are not really your competition.  The individual who shops with them is not looking for the unique product that you have to offer and sometimes he isnt even looking for cheap but rather just more generic.  I consider Chuck to be one of the most talented and artistic guys I know of BUT we all know that there are several outfits that clickem, dippem and shelvem until they are ordered but yet charge top dollar and their customers think of these mass produced items as custom??  Perhaps the idea has roots in a time when the maker was starting out and actually doing custom work, who knows.  Purdy done a great article in the Chronicle concerning this a few years back.  OH and Chuck, do not fergit:

(7) Never think Uncle Sam isnt watching for his share!  (Its a hard lesson to learn)

[Dalton Masterson]

Thanks for the good tips, Chuck and SB. Yes, Uncle Sam watches all...

I am still a hobbyist, and dont expect to be much more due to time, real job, kid, wife, insurance needs, retirement, etc. But, this post has helped me a bunch. I usually have 3-6 standing orders for gear, and that is plenty enough to keep me busy.
SB, yes, it is definately a labor of love.
Thanks fellas.
DM

[JD Alan]

Speaking of Purdy gear, she is a killer leather craftsman with a very sharp website. I always enjoy her articles in the SASS rag.

[outrider]

Speaking of Purdy Gear...she did another very well done article in the March Chronicle...she kind of rips a new "butt cover" on those who make and use tactical cowboy rigs...you know the ones with steel this and steel that.... with adjustable cants...being bolted to the gunbelt etc.   what I call cowboy combat rigs.   There are a few in the club I shoot with that have their guns hanging out so far they look like miniature wings on their hips...these guys are fast...but one of these days they are going to loose one of those pistols....MDQ at the least

If Mongo see this ...he will know exactly who I am talking about